zlacker

[parent] [thread] 10 comments
1. btilly+(OP)[view] [source] 2021-02-13 20:32:48
Do we / did we even have the tech co be able to build this in a lab? I don't think we do.

A random virus, no. This one, we do.

We can't build a virus from scratch. But we can combine pieces of different viruses to build a new one. The same thing also happens naturally when an animal is sick with 2 viruses at once. If both get into the same cell, you get various mixes created and sometimes a mixture will turn out to be a better virus than either parent.

This virus looks like a combination of apparently unrelated viruses. See https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-origins-genome-analy... for confirmation. That happens to be something that can happen either naturally or artificially.

Where conspiracy theorists get going is that a few years ago there were papers from the lab near Wuhan suggesting that a combination much like COVID-19's actual combination should be particularly effective in humans. So this looks like an extension of a known line of research from a lab involved in military work. Combine that with the local coverup and you can see how people go down the rabbit hole.

replies(3): >>highst+91 >>Amezar+x2 >>enchir+7h
2. highst+91[view] [source] 2021-02-13 20:39:56
>>btilly+(OP)
You really should cite those paper if you're going to offer such significant information. your comment is worthless otherwise.
replies(2): >>Dylan1+H1 >>btilly+Ye
◧◩
3. Dylan1+H1[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-13 20:43:46
>>highst+91
> You really should cite those paper if you're going to offer such significant information.

Yes.

> your comment is worthless otherwise.

No.

4. Amezar+x2[view] [source] 2021-02-13 20:47:38
>>btilly+(OP)
I think what makes the Wuhan lab particularly suspicious is that the lab was specifically doing work on the closest known ancestor to the COVID-19 virus, which as far as we know was only found naturally in bat caves more than a thousand miles away.

I would discount the possibility that this was bioweapons research - the US was funding serial passage and gain-of-function research at this lab, of which the express purpose is to make viruses more infectious in different species, including humans.

At any rate, I don't think we can expect anything to be definitively proven. It is absolutely possible that this came out of the wild. But as the NY Magazine "Lab Leak" article illustrates, we should probably be open to the idea it came out of a lab. I also think we should reconsider whether or not serial-passage and gain-of-function research is something that can be ethically conducted. Anywhere.

◧◩
5. btilly+Ye[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-13 22:17:25
>>highst+91
A good starting point is https://www.independentsciencenews.org/health/the-case-is-bu....

See https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4797993/ for one of their previous lines of research that look similar to the actual COVID-19 virus.

6. enchir+7h[view] [source] 2021-02-13 22:34:25
>>btilly+(OP)
At that point it's just a theory, not a conspiracy theory
replies(2): >>btilly+vn >>nsajko+Vw
◧◩
7. btilly+vn[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-13 23:24:36
>>enchir+7h
It is. But then you descend down the rabbit hole to a government coverup of a release from a secret bioweapons research lab that was intended to target US military members at the 2019 Military World Games in late October in Wuhan. And now it becomes pretty clearly a conspiracy theory.
replies(1): >>adolph+GG
◧◩
8. nsajko+Vw[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 00:51:53
>>enchir+7h
"What Is a Theory?" - https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/darwin/evolution-today/what...
◧◩◪
9. adolph+GG[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 02:50:14
>>btilly+vn
No, the theory is that the US service members brought it with them and infected Wuhan.

Earlier in March, Zhao Lijian, an outspoken Chinese diplomat, raised a suspicion on his personal Twitter account that it might have been the US army representatives to the Military World Games who brought the novel coronavirus to Wuhan in October 2019, after a top US health official admitted detecting coronavirus infections on some deceased flu patients. Zhao urged the US to disclose further information, exercise transparency on coronavirus cases and provide an explanation to the public.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1183658.shtml

replies(1): >>btilly+5Q
◧◩◪◨
10. btilly+5Q[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 04:55:34
>>adolph+GG
To the people holding the theory that I just gave, that's a Chinese disinformation campaign that is part of the coverup. They are accusing others of what they did.

But, there is more than one conspiracy theory here. And probably will be forever. As a hopefully rational third party, I would like it investigated.

But I'm currently giving good odds to "accidental release from program intended to research possible future pandemics". And if that winds up seeming at all likely, I believe that the whole world should commit to having better controls on this type of research to avoid future accidental releases. Because accidental mass murder isn't OK.

replies(1): >>adolph+Ul2
◧◩◪◨⬒
11. adolph+Ul2[view] [source] [discussion] 2021-02-14 19:52:37
>>btilly+5Q
The second order developments of “accidental lab release” could be far larger. Do people have the right to sue for wrongful death?

Given that the CDC and commercial companies were doing research in that lab, is the US just as culpable as China?

What was the reason for the CDC working with that lab? Aside from rationalizations, was it essentially just outsourcing the dirty work like any other polluting industry?

[go to top]