zlacker

Why is "Black" capitalized, but "white" is not?

>>joshua+(OP)
I don't know what style guide ProPublica uses, but very recently AP decided to capitalize Black when used as a cultural term when it conveys "essential and shared sense of history, identity and community among people who identify as Black". They go on to say that they expect to make a decision soon about whether to do that with "white" as well.

https://blog.ap.org/announcements/the-decision-to-capitalize... https://apnews.com/71386b46dbff8190e71493a763e8f45a

>>joshua+(OP)
“For many people, Black reflects a shared sense of identity and community. White carries a different set of meanings; capitalizing the word in this context risks following the lead of white supremacists.”

https://www.cjr.org/analysis/capital-b-black-styleguide.php

>>jfenge+Q1
And boy, those must be some fraught discussions. I think of myself as white but not White, because the notion White Culture connotes white supremacy. Black people outside of Africa share a common element of diaspora, at the very least defined in terms of their shared difficulties, while I as a white person in the west define myself more closely with smaller ethnic and national groups than with whiteness as a whole.

Still... the terminology of race is never going to be precise, and to the degree it exists at all, I'm going to be seen as white rather than another thing. So we might as well be parallel, and use White along with Black and Indigenous and other tendentious but sometimes useful categories.

So if I had to bet, that's where I suspect AP will land. But I don't envy them the process of coming to that conclusion, or the backlash they're going to get either way.

>>jibcag+T1
Kafkaesque

>>jibcag+T1
So much new perspective and so many new rules to absorb. We need some kind of efficient way to learn these things. Maybe some kind of (re-)education center, maybe. Hey, it's summertime -- how about a camp? /s

We're in very bizarre times, for sure. Is all this even meant to be constructive (because it's not), or just provocative and divisive (which it demonstrably is)? I can't help but think that the outcome we're seeing (division) is the actual goal.

>>jfenge+Q1
Capitalizing "Black" is in response to people who identify as Black doing so, I believe. Doing so for people who identify as capital-W "White" would be very different and hand them a victory that will badly distort public debate.

It's amazing how powerful just applying capitalize() to a string can be.

>>eplani+Q8
Funny how you ask if it's meant to be constructive in a totally unconstructive comment!

>>joshua+(OP)
It already is... Irish-American, Polish-American, Jewish, etc.

"Black" isn't just about skin tone, it's about the shared cultural experience.

>>antish+z6
Not really. You wouldn’t be criticized if you got it wrong, but it’s the kinda thing that would make an English style guide.

You do it the other way and watch absolutely no one care.

>>aspace+lu
> You do it the other way and watch absolutely no one care.

I have never seen a style guide make a distinction between skin colors, and I disagree that nobody would care if they capitalised 'white' but not 'black'.

>>jfenge+74
> while I as a white person in the west define myself more closely with smaller ethnic and national groups than with whiteness as a whole.

Sure, but how do others define you? Consider that tech companies and activists are trying to redefine the meaning of racism to allow others to discriminate against you based on the color of your skin.

>>nailer+3w
You’re quoting to a reply that replies to a link with a style guide that does exactly that. Open it and your whole world will change apparently.

Reading comprehension must be so hard.

>>alista+Bt
But that's not correct - while both would generally be considered 'black', sub Saharan Africans share very little cultural experience with African Americans.

>>aspace+2x
My comment: "I disagree that nobody would care if they capitalised 'white' but not 'black'."

The style guide in question: "why we capitalize ‘Black’ (and not ‘white’)"

Your comment: "You’re quoting to a reply that replies to a link with a style guide that does exactly that. Reading comprehension must be so hard."

Yes, it must.

>>joshua+(OP)
"black" = race

"Black" = ethnicity

See also:

"deaf" = the physical condition of being unable to hear

"Deaf" = being part of the Deaf culture (sign language user, shared experiences unique to growing up deaf, etc.)

>>nailer+Vw
Exactly right, and in fact I am often excluded from whiteness on account of being Jewish. The most explicit white supremacists construct Whiteness very narrowly. And it's in opposition to white supremacy that a notion of Blackness is more important: not how they see themselves, but how they are treated, and how that treatment affects their lives.

I would be considered white in most circumstances so I get a pass from a lot of discrimination that affects others. And that's why I consider it important to take a stand against that discrimination -- though unfortunately, the people propagating the worst of that discrimination see me as a traitor.

>>nailer+4x
Fair enough. But, as soon as the sub-Saharan African moves to the US, I suspect his experiences from that point forward will rapidly start to match those of Black Americans, particularly WRT to police use of force.

>>alista+yD
African immigrants generally strive, similar to Asian immigrants. The Nigerian stereotype is being a doctor. Issues like fatherless children, teenage pregnancy, juvenile delinquency and gang culture will likely be less prevalent, and the Africans will likely be less involved with the police.