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NYC passes POST Act, requiring police department to reveal surveillance tech

submitted by colawa+(OP) on 2020-06-20 20:05:28 | 324 points 91 comments
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8. shanem+oj[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-20 22:34:18
>>dflock+eh
From this article it appears they can use private funding to purchase things without oversight.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/18/police-found...

12. walter+Go[view] [source] 2020-06-20 23:25:37
>>colawa+(OP)
Does this include Google's Sidewalk / CityBridge / LinkNYC kiosks (multiple sensors and cameras) partnership with NYC?

https://gizmodo.com/nycs-free-wifi-service-is-turning-into-a...

https://cryptome.org/2016/06/linknyc-spy-kiosks-installation...

https://theintercept.com/2020/05/08/andrew-cuomo-eric-schmid...

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14. auston+ip[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-20 23:33:59
>>Bnshsy+8o
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23546695
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16. gruez+Vp[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-20 23:43:05
>>godzil+Ag
Actually, there's a "good faith" (aka. "ignorance of the law") exception for cops. So even a lawyer might not be able to save you.

https://www.justia.com/criminal/procedure/search-and-seizure...

>A mistake of law by a police officer sometimes can trigger the exception. If an officer takes steps based on the existing interpretation of the law, but a court later rules that the law should be interpreted differently, they may be found to have acted in good faith.

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18. catalo+nr[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-20 23:57:45
>>square+mp
Virtually all American police departments are using at least some military psychology techniques. For instance the use of human silhouette targets at the gun range.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Killing#The_problem_of_non-...

Examples of targets being marketed to law enforcement:

http://www.americantargetcompany.com/law_enforcement_targets...

https://www.amazon.com/law-enforcement-target/s?k=law+enforc...

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20. dang+js[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-21 00:08:40
>>school+Uh
Please don't use uppercase for emphasis. If you want to emphasize a word or phrase, put asterisks around it and it will get italicized.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

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21. catalo+rs[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-21 00:10:57
>>mtgp10+Mr
> Background: Despite veterans' preference hiring policies by law enforcement agencies, no studies have examined the nature or effects of military service or deployments on health outcomes. This study will examine the effect of military veteran status and deployment history on law enforcement officer (LEO)-involved shootings.

> Methods: Ten years of data were extracted from Dallas Police Department records. LEOs who were involved in a shooting in the past 10 years were frequency matched on sex to LEOs never involved in a shooting. Military discharge records were examined to quantify veteran status and deployment(s). Multivariable logistic regression was used to estimate the effect of veteran status and deployment history on officer-involved shooting involvement.

> Results: Records were abstracted for 516 officers. In the adjusted models, veteran LEOs who were not deployed were significantly more likely to be involved in a shooting than non-veteran officers. Veterans with a deployment history were 2.9 times more likely to be in a shooting than non-veteran officers.

> Conclusions: Military veteran status, regardless of deployment history, is associated with increased odds of shootings among LEOs. Future studies should identify mechanisms that explain this relationship, and whether officers who experienced firsthand combat exposure experience greater odds of shooting involvement.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30281075/

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25. Taylor+Tt[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-21 00:29:33
>>mtgp10+Mr
I mean, I’ve been hearing a lot of cases where the police killed people who were definitely not “violent criminals who have no regard for police life”. Brianna Taylor’s boyfriend wasn’t a violent criminal when he fired at the police.

“ A defence attorney for Taylor’s boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, says he fired in self-defence because police did not announce themselves and that he believed they were breaking in to the home.”

The police did a no-knock raid unannounced on the wrong home, then shot EMT Brianna Taylor 8 times. Those violent techniques are at issue here. They seem to be violations of 5th and/or 14th amendment rights and clearly not appropriate.

https://lailasnews.com/international/brianna-taylor-death-br...

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29. runlev+Cv[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-21 00:54:26
>>Barrin+Dq
You can't scrutinize what you don't know about. So every bit of transparency has been hard-fought.

Take the NYPD's use of proprietary "predictive policing" algorithms to identify where a crime may occur and identify individuals who may be a perpetrator.

These algorithms have long been feared to express the biases of their input data. [1]

The NYPD has obstructed freedom of information requests at every turn. They wouldn't even release their correspondence with the vendor because it "would reveal trade secret information." [2]

If we can't examine it or even know how it's being used, it's significantly more difficult to scrutinize.

[1]: https://www.propublica.org/article/machine-bias-risk-assessm...

[2]: https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/cour...

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35. jacobu+HA[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-21 01:53:52
>>Rebelg+Xt
How do you feel about that?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=SECu1fR0dWE&t...

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38. 6AA4FD+dH[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-21 03:18:56
>>Taylor+Tt
Just a heads up I think her name is spelled Breonna[0]. Not a knock against the rest of your post, I like it.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Breonna_Taylor

44. WarOnP+tN[view] [source] 2020-06-21 04:49:22
>>colawa+(OP)
I'm glad that NYC's dystopic Domain Awareness system gets some coverage here.

However it's curious that Microsoft isn't mentioned at all in the article - even though every inch of this abomination is entirely Microsoft's creation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_Awareness_System

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48. metrok+OU[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-21 06:35:00
>>kelnos+8L
The majority of victims of police brutality (at least deaths by police, of course there are other forms of police brutality but killings by police is what the current conversation is about) are violent criminals. Of the ~1000 people killed by police in 2019 538 were armed with a gun, 159 with a knife, 60 with a vehicle, and 63 with another weapon. 41 were unarmed, 23 had a toy weapon, and 49 is unknown. [0] The majority of people that cops interact with overall are not violent criminals, but the majority of people subject to the type of police brutality which is overwhelmingly controlling the conversation (i.e. killings by police) are violent criminals.

[0] https://www.statista.com/chart/5211/us-citizens-killed-by-po...

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50. metrok+mW[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-21 07:07:21
>>runawa+VI
A taser is a deadly weapon under Georgia law, so the officer was in fact following his training by responding with lethal force when the taser was pointed at him by Rayshard.

> Earlier this month, Howard charged six Atlanta police officers with using excessive force in pulling two college students out of a car during a protest. In justifying charges of aggravated assault against some of the officers, Howard said a Taser is considered a deadly weapon under Georgia law. [0]

Rayshard was also breaking Georgia DUI law by drinking in his parked car. He also likely drove there drunk, so investigating was ethical. Drunk driving kills over 10,000 people every year.

> Similarly, if the keys are in the ignition but the car is not yet turned on, this could be charged as a parked car DUI. Additionally, if the person is in the car, in the driver's seat, with the keys in their hand, but not in the ignition, this can be charged as a parked car DUI. [1]

[0] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/17/raysha...

[1] https://www.duigeorgia.com/parked-car-dui

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52. tomsch+HW[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-21 07:13:07
>>akudha+cA
The cops that walked out regarding the charges for the RB shooting did so because it seems the DA is contradicting Georgia law, and his own statements from a few weeks ago.

A taser is considered a deadly weapon under GA law and the DA had charged other officers a few weeks ago with using a taser as a deadly weapon. Now he is saying its not a deadly weapon when stolen and used against them, and didn't warrant deadly force to be used in return. He also didn't even wait for the Georgia Bureau of Investigation's report with the facts on the shooting.

That's why the police walked out. Form all account's I have seen so far, that officer seems to have followed that department's use of force continuum guidelines correctly and GA law but was still charged for seemingly political points by a DA who is up for re-election. You're not going to get cooperation when cops feel that they have done everything according to policy/state law and can still get charged because an angry mob demands it.

Here is a breakdown from a former police officer who dives into it a little further: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5QEnGkIbzA

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53. teddyh+w01[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-21 08:25:01
>>waheoo+bR
No. “Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people:

First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bureaucracy, many of the engineers and launch technicians and scientists at NASA, even some agricultural scientists and advisors in the former Soviet Union collective farming administration.

Secondly, there will be those dedicated to the organization itself. Examples are many of the administrators in the education system, many professors of education, many teachers union officials, much of the NASA headquarters staff, etc.

The Iron Law states that in every case the second group will gain and keep control of the organization. It will write the rules, and control promotions within the organization.

https://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html

In other words, the police, like essentially every other organization, is trying to preserve itself and expand itself. It only aligns with the wishes of another organization, e.g. “the tax collector”, as far as it serves their own goals, either because it furthers their goals directly, or if the other organization is in a position to threaten their own goals of preservation and expansion.

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55. vertex+d21[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-21 08:52:47
>>metrok+OU
"They have a gun", the statement, is different from "they have a gun", the fact. There's no actual oversight to these reports - the closest we have is the Washington Post performing the intensive work of collecting reports from individual police departments, but they're unable to verify the reports.

In other countries like England & Wales, when a police officer seriously injures or kills someone, there's a formal investigation by the Independent Office for Police Conduct, an independent body at a centralised Government level with powers equivalent to a police officer for matters they investigate. They also usually provide public reports, for example, https://policeconduct.gov.uk/recommendations/police-response.... (Also note the limited use of force - two shots, one of which struck - and immediate care.) It's still not perfect, but it's a heck of a lot better than what the US does.

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59. rmrfst+m41[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-21 09:21:07
>>walter+Go
And more...

“This is a partnership, not a contractual relationship.” [1]

"Because of partner relations and legal authorities, SSO Corporate sites are often controlled by the partner, who filters the communications before sending to NSA." [2]

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/us/politics/att-helped-ns...

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/08/15/us/documents....

65. geiche+X91[view] [source] 2020-06-21 10:47:37
>>colawa+(OP)
Anyone else read this with The Wire (TV show) theme in their head? https://youtu.be/K3rZgs3dudI
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