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1. RcouF1+(OP)[view] [source] 2020-06-18 17:24:59
> it won't get much better than being a model minority, which is to say it's a more privileged existence than being black is (sorry for the bluntness),

As an Asian, I actually think that Asians are more privileged than White people. As a group we earn more, have better life expectancy, and have to deal with less historical baggage. If you search for it, any group can find areas where they feel they are being mistreated, but on the whole, your parents’ strategy has succeeded spectacularly. I think this is in part, because it was a win-win strategy. We were able to make our lives better without making another race feel bad or making their lives worse. Nobody had to lose for us to win.

replies(3): >>ithink+I3 >>rovolo+4b >>munchb+tc
2. ithink+I3[view] [source] 2020-06-18 17:44:57
>>RcouF1+(OP)
What? No, Asians are definitely not more privileged than Whites (in western society). You're conflating socioeconomics with race. And how do Asians have less historical baggage? Many Asian countries have a history of being colonialized and being exploited.
3. rovolo+4b[view] [source] 2020-06-18 18:25:45
>>RcouF1+(OP)
US Immigration policy prefers high socioeconomic migrants (after the 1965 immigration reform bill). Since most Asians have immigrated to the US since 1965, of course Asians as a group will have higher economic status than the average American. The question is whether you have better outcomes controlling for parental socioeconomic status.

Census Date: Total US Asian population

1970: 1.5M

1980: 3.5M

1990: 7.2M

2000: 10.6M

2010: 15.2M

2020 (proj): 19.7M

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_d...

replies(1): >>analys+2p
4. munchb+tc[view] [source] 2020-06-18 18:33:06
>>RcouF1+(OP)
> As a group we earn more, have better life expectancy, and have to deal with less historical baggage.

We might earn more on average and might expect to live longer, but there's plenty of historical baggage. It's not a competition, but there's plenty of baggage. The internment camps of WWII are literally still in living memory. Personally, multiple times throughout K-12-college, in the most liberal cities in the US, I've been told to go back to where I came from. I don't let it bother me - I can't let it bother me - but it's still very real.

> If you search for it, any group can find areas where they feel they are being mistreated, but on the whole, your parents’ strategy has succeeded spectacularly.

It did, but there are some very important caveats:

1. My parents' strategy had to be built on top of the hard-earned victories by the black communities in the US in the 60's and 70's.

2. I personally benefited from my race's perception as "civil, unlike the other minorities". You don't get to choose which side of that fence you're born on.

3. My parents and their fellow immigrants were the product of extensive resources poured into their educations in their home countries. They were educated enough to perceive and understand the cultural "game" played by the American middle/upper classes. That's not a repeatable strategy for most people in the US, period, let alone for minorities.

4. In practice my upbringing, and that of my fellow immigrants and ABC's, wasn't just by our parents, it was a whole community's pooled time and energy. Just look at how Chinese American communities handle college admissions.

5. My parents understood, whether tacitly or explicitly, that as Chinese Americans the children would have to assimilate into mainstream American culture, and by doing so they could mostly pass as "white". My parents outright told me that it was necessary for my future career. Imagine telling that to a black person. Good luck doing that when your skin color literally doesn't let you do it.

> I think this is in part, because it was a win-win strategy. We were able to make our lives better without making another race feel bad or making their lives worse. Nobody had to lose for us to win.

That's not true. Chinese American communities, for example, enthusiastically engage in "opportunity hoarding". (https://belonging.berkeley.edu/richard-reeves-opportunity-ho...) The losers in this are usually other minorities. The effect is indirect, but it's real. A great example of this is the fact that Chinese Americans suddenly become politically active the moment there's even a whiff of anything remotely like affirmative action. We might frame it as a matter of meritocracy or fairness, but we also know it's not a win-win situation. We know it's about winning the game for our team to the detriment of other minority groups.

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5. analys+2p[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-18 19:35:29
>>rovolo+4b
I remember there was an Soc119 class discussed that after controlling for education, asians actually make less than both whites and blacks.

If you pick the cream of the crop from Asia, they are going to do well even if you kick them down a peg.

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