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1. jrochk+(OP)[view] [source] 2020-06-16 16:45:23
I'm having trouble understanding your perspective on what's "anti-democratic".

As you note, neither github nor hardly any company has any kind of "democratic decision-making" at all. It's just not how companies work in America. So I don't understand hwo you can be "bypassing" something that doesn't exist.

When the executive and other decision makers at a company make decisions with no democratic decision making whatsoever, do you think that is "no different than any authoritarian movement"? Personally, I think saying it's "no different" is a bit much, it's a differnet in a bunch of ways -- but I think it's not great, I think we should work to put democratic decision-making in all companies. Do you agree?

In the meantime though, we don't have that. So what are people who want to have impact on the decision-making supposed to do? Even when there is democratic decision-making, it's considered normal to try to convince your fellow-decision makers of things. I don't understand where you are drawing the line between allowable ways to effect decision-making and "like an authoritarian movement". I mean, nobody's threatening anyone with violence, are they? What means of persuasion or pressure are according to you allowed, and what means are not?

It doesn't help that I don't think either of us has actually read the article, because it's behind a paywall? So I actually have no idea what methods or persuasion or pressure they are using. Do you know more than me? If so, feel free to tell me (ideally with a link to another article so I can get it from the source), and explain why you think those methods have crossed the line into "authoritarian"?

Since I don't know specificcally what they are doing, I can't really defend it specifically. Like, if they were beating people up who didn't agree with them, I'd definitely agree that's something authoritarian movements do! (I still don't think I'd agree it's "no different", there are always differences, that's a kind of lazy thing to say, "no different"). But I don't see any reason to think or assume they are doing that? Do you have more information than me? I'm confused why you are assuming they are using unethical methods, or even what you think those methods they are using are. Are you saying just that going to the press makes it "no different than any authoritarian movement", but if you just talked about it quietly inside the company that would be okay? That would seem an odd distinction to me.

replies(1): >>LunaSe+e4
2. LunaSe+e4[view] [source] 2020-06-16 17:09:03
>>jrochk+(OP)
I agree with you but what I'm trying to explain is that complaining about a topic instead of trying to implement a democratic system to do so is the same as ignoring other people's opinion because they weren't loud enough.

If they want their opinion to be taken seriously, they should setup democratic vote among employees to collect votes anonymously about the issue at hand.

Proceeding otherwise is simply trying to convince colleagues but also removes the possibility for other employees to have their voices heard anonymously.

replies(1): >>jrochk+JY
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3. jrochk+JY[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-16 22:17:30
>>LunaSe+e4
That's just not how it works in the real world. Saying the only valid option for exerting pressure on your employer is "setting up a democratic vote" is basically saying you should give up on exerting pressure on your employer.

Fortunately, in fact, plenty of organized people have been taken seriously, and have effected change, through other means.

replies(1): >>LunaSe+6V2
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4. LunaSe+6V2[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-17 15:17:55
>>jrochk+JY
> Fortunately

By possibly bypassing the majority's opinion. Also called authoritarianism. Putting pressure in a non-democratic way is silencing people's opinion and similar to censorship.

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