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1. pjc50+(OP)[view] [source] 2020-06-11 09:47:54
> nobody expects the police not to shoot back when fired upon

This is often part of the "rules of engagement" that military personnel are expected to follow; not only because they're expected not to shoot civilians, but also peacekeeping situations where firing on the wrong forces could cause WW3, as well as the very basic check that the target isn't wearing the same uniform as you and shooting in your direction by mistake.

It's not clear whether the police were firing at the gun-holder here and missed, or whether they were firing blindly through a door, wall, or into a dark area; that is also criminally irresponsible.

replies(2): >>dillon+33 >>jki275+5o
2. dillon+33[view] [source] 2020-06-11 10:13:19
>>pjc50+(OP)
Blindly, it seems. The neighboring apartment had several bullets enter, as well.

So, zero regard for the safety of anyone.

replies(2): >>trfhuh+Eq >>dx034+MT2
3. jki275+5o[view] [source] 2020-06-11 13:12:30
>>pjc50+(OP)
I'm not sure what you're suggesting about military "rules of engagement", but military personnel always have the right to defend themselves, including with deadly force, if they are attacked.

I suspect you're missing something here or not communicating what you're trying to say very well -- military personnel aren't going to sit around and do nothing if they're being shot at, they're going to return fire, call for artillery on the source of the shooting, call for aircraft support to bomb the source of the shooting, call for a QRF team to help them destroy the source of the shooting, etc.

Even "peacekeeping" forces are going to return fire if fired upon.

replies(1): >>pjc50+qu
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4. trfhuh+Eq[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-11 13:28:13
>>dillon+33
Zero accountability -> zero regard.
replies(1): >>dx034+TT2
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5. pjc50+qu[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-11 13:50:43
>>jki275+5o
No, I'm referring very specifically to things like the British Army "Yellow Card" system: http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2011/12/rules-of-engagement.... / http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/383102.stm

Having the British Army fire on and kill civilians in Northern Ireland was extremely controversial. Several incidents resulted in murder trials. Some of this is still going on. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49721166

> Even "peacekeeping" forces are going to return fire if fired upon.

My point is that there have been lots of places in the 20th century where troops have been specifically ordered not to do that without senior authorisation, because of the potential political impact of an escalation.

Or at the very least carefully identify who they are going to be shooting at, and provide a warning, rather than firing blindly into residential buildings.

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6. dx034+MT2[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-12 11:17:34
>>dillon+33
And zero training. Mandatory weapon training for some US police forces is shockingly short. Other countries train any police officer over months to be able to not only hit targets under stress but also to avoid shooting whenever possible.
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7. dx034+TT2[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-12 11:18:12
>>trfhuh+Eq
I don't think that a police officer thinks of accountability in this situation. It's a high stress situation and with no training all you can do is randomly shoot. Extensive training would be the answer.
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