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1. smnrch+(OP)[view] [source] 2020-06-02 03:56:23
> Just using common sense tells me that if you can name off the victims it means the problem isn’t widespread or systemic across the country.

> Name the police officers killed in the line of duty in the last ten years. You can’t there’s way too many.

First of all, the number of people killed by US police is an order of magnitude higher than the number of police officers killed in the line of duty. I have provided sources about this here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23373468

Of course, not every death caused by police is unjustifiable. But let's keep the whole picture in mind.

Second, I don't think any reasonable person is arguing that police officers nonchalantly murdering random black citizens is the systemic issue. What is systemic is police misconduct and brutality, as well as bias towards minorities especially black people. In extreme circumstances, this can result in loss of life; but most of the time, it won't.

You may have heard of Heinrich's law. If you have not, please take a look at the Wikipedia page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accident_triangle

The gist of Heinrich's law is that for each accident causing serious serious injury or death, tens of accidents had occurred previously causing minor injury. For each accident causing minor injury, there had been tens of accidents causing no injury. For each accident causing no injury, there had been tens of unsafe acts. To give an example, a drunk driver killing someone had probably driven drunk hundreds of time before. He had scraped the paint on his car a couple of times, and the rest, he had driven without any accident of any sort.

For every death on that list, how many people have suffered life altering injuries and permanent disabilities at the hands of the police, e.g. blindness [1] or paralysis [2]? For every person suffering life altering injuries, how many have suffered serious yet healable injuries, e.g. broken ribs, ruptured spleen, etc.? For every person suffering serious yet healable injuries, how many have suffered minor injuries, e.g. broken nose, broken teeth, bruises, cuts, etc.? For every person suffering minor injuries, how many have been harassed, targeted, unjustifiably arrested or carded?

This is the systemic issue people are protesting against.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/30/us/minneapolis-protests-p...

[2] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/assault-charges-d...

replies(1): >>frogpe+AK
2. frogpe+AK[view] [source] 2020-06-02 12:15:56
>>smnrch+(OP)
I would fully expect the numbers of people killed by police to be higher than officers killed.

I don't disagree that there is a likely (especially in some places) a systemic police brutality or at least heavy-handed approach. I don't know how widespread. Probably a small minority of cops create a large majority of the problems.

And that needs to be rectified at the local level. Just like Mr. Obama said in his article.

I also believe that there a small minority of police officers who either already are prejudiced or have developed an unhealthy prejudice as a result of doing their jobs.

Because let's face it, if you get a job policing an inner city predominantly African-American community and you are not African-American, you are going to have many opportunities to develop prejudice. The obvious reason is that you are going to deal with the worst people from the community on a regular basis. It would work the same if a black police officer was assigned to work a rural, low-income white neighborhood. It's natural to start building a stereotype in your mind. In fact, it might be a self-preservation tactic.

I think one path to a solution (which once again has to be developed at the local level) is that the police need to do more in the communities than just enforce the law. If there was some community involvement it would create a trust between the police and the community. This would cause the interactions between officers and law breakers to maybe not start out with such animosity. If you knew the officer's first name and he knew yours because you had been in the community you'd be a lot less likely to have negative interaction during a traffic stop.

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