zlacker

Is there ever an instance of power being taken away from armed groups like police or military, in any country? I think it's very easy to grant power, and very hard to revoke. Also, what happens if the police departments refuse to accept the decision. I am not kidding, I read that there was a strike by San Francisco police in 1975 where the police refused to follow court orders and declared them "illegal".

>>enitih+(OP)
My understanding is that ending qualified immunity would open police officers up to lawsuits around their use of force that they’re currently exempt from today. So, officers risk significant financial damage by choosing to ignore this change if it becomes law.

>>enitih+(OP)
Magna Carta? US Declaration of Independence?

>>enitih+(OP)
Probably not a great example, but in the early 1930s, the Texas Rangers and State Police publicly backed the wrong candidate for governor and 'Ma' Ferguson fired all the former and disbanded the latter. That's why Texas has a "Department of Public Safety" rather than state police.

Not exactly the proudest moment, but with public support it works.

Source: my Texas history class. Wikipedia is totally silent and most other sources seem sketchy.

>>enitih+(OP)
At one point, public order enforcement in the UK was carried out by the army, who were not above making cavalry charges against peaceful protesters:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterloo_Massacre

That power has been taken away from the army in the UK. It now lies with the police, who, er, well at least they don't have swords:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Orgreave

>>save_f+21
There has been proposals to have something similar to malpractice insurance, where cops that get sued a lot will have higher rates and will likely be kicked off the force, and good cops would bring the rates down.

>>enitih+(OP)
With the Posse Comitatus Act, the Federal Government limited its ability to use the military as a domestic police force. The Insurrection Act limited how the President could deploy military domestically as well.

>>enitih+(OP)
The San Francisco vigilance committee voluntarily disbanded after they overthrew the local government:

https://www.legendsofamerica.com/sanfrancisco-vigilantes/

The federal courts eventually upheld the vigilance committee’s actions.

>>enitih+(OP)
> s there ever an instance of power being taken away from armed groups like police or military, in any country?

I struggle to understand this. Isn't this what an election does? One administration controls the military, then another one does. So... the US, every 4 years?

I feel like this comment romanticize "power" in a common (yet, to me, very odd) way. We take power away from police officers all the time: "desk duty". As a group, we give power to the national guard ("mobilize") and take it away ("demobilize") all the time. I understand that police have a lot of political will behind them, but why is this problem all of a sudden a fundamental dynamic of power rather than a policy choice we as society continue to make?

>>enitih+(OP)
Tunisia after the revolution. Their resolution was to not enforce laws until they have an immunity law. You can blockade most of the roads here today and the police forces will not show up. Or just show up to try to negotiate with the protesters and convince them otherwise.

And in case you are wondering, it made most of the country into chaos because while most of the citizens are going their way there are people who will seek trouble.

There must, certainly, be a middle ground. But government do enjoy a strong police force that they can use at will.

>>enitih+(OP)
> Is there ever an instance of power being taken away from armed groups like police or military, in any country?

Sure. Most countries didn’t have an independent police complaints body a century ago. Now most (developed) do. And many countries require body cams these days, of course.

>>enitih+(OP)
All of history is a slow march towards more equably distributed power. At least after the initial consolidation of power in, for example, the Roman Empire.

Specifically as to the military: My country's military went from worst-of-history to has-50-helicopters-but-none-that-fly in two big steps: First losing a hot war, then winning a cold one.

Plenty of countries have drastically reduced military spending after the Cold War ended. European police has also mostly avoided US-style militarisation. The UK Police used to hang petty criminals every second Tuesday. Nowadays, they don't even carry guns anymore.