zlacker

Voting? Anyway, there's pretty broad agreement that the riots are opportunistic violence, not connected to or motivated by a concern for justice.

>>throwa+(OP)
Voting hasn't worked. Oakland PD still has half of its budget to brutality complaints. It's been 7 years since the movement started and 66 years since voting was allowed for Black people. Voting isn't going to change anything.

"Broad agreement" by who, exactly? I keep seeing videos of cops smashing windows then blaming it on protestors, cops attacking crowds with tear gas and less-lethal rounds, and now a shooting of a small business owner at a barbecue. It's not connected to a concern for justice because you're looking at the wrong side to blame.

>>freeon+ip
> Voting hasn't worked

What? If 10% of the people who turned out to protest actually voted in their local elections, they would have whatever they wanted. Voting has hardly been attempted, and there are voting data to prove it.

> "Broad agreement" by who, exactly?

Basically everyone who isn't an outside agitator, but if you don't already believe me I doubt I'm going to change your mind.

> I keep seeing videos of cops smashing windows then blaming it on protestors, cops attacking crowds with tear gas and less-lethal rounds, and now a shooting of a small business owner at a barbecue. It's not connected to a concern for justice because you're looking at the wrong side to blame.

I don't know what to tell you. Cops aren't using kid gloves any more for sure, but cities are descending into chaos and no one in good faith thinks its the cops that are out there doing the looting and burning.

>>throwa+ew
> Basically everyone who isn't an outside agitator, but if you don't already believe me I doubt I'm going to change your mind.

Trotting out a nebulous, totally unsourced claim and then implying that anyone who questions you is wrong beyond help is… not exactly a convincing tactic.

>>freeon+ip
> Voting hasn't worked. Oakland PD still has half of its budget to brutality complaints. It's been 7 years since the movement started and 66 years since voting was allowed for Black people. Voting isn't going to change anything.

Really, honestly, think about this rationale and think about what it would look like if people with different views than you applied this line of reasoning. Would you be okay with anti-abortion activists employed direct action and did to clinics what these protestors did to police stations?

>>manfre+sV
Are you saying they haven't? The DOJ considers anti-abortion activists domestic terrorists and treats them as such.

>>manfre+sV
No, for two reasons:

First, no one is forcing you to have an abortion you don't want. Anti-abortion activity is for the sake of others, and never yourself. This makes it no less noble of an endeavor for your personal beliefs, but since other people having abortions don't actually affect you one wit, it's hard to see abortion as having the same urgency as police brutality, where people at random are dying daily, and anybody could be the next target.

Second, because their voices are being heard. Between the banning of funding for Planned Parenthood domestically as well as internationally, and continued restrictions to constructively ban abortion in several states, it's clear that progress is being made, so voting is working. This is not clear at all for victims of police violence, where claims have been increasing over time, not decreasing.

>>freeon+cj1
Tell that to the people who genuinely believe that termination of pregnancies is murder. I don't deny that you see abortion in a different light (and so do I). That's the point. It's clear that the comment above is written without consideration for the fact that people have different worldviews.

Your comment is just as empowering for said activists to say "voting hasn't worked, murdering the unborn remains legal nationwide. We need to use direct action against abortion providers".

The idea that force is justified because democracy has not produced the desired outcome directly leads to a world where might makes right.

>>select+fh1
And rightly so. That's my point: using force to override democracy is bad, and leads to a world where might makes right. The same scrutiny should be applied to the groups torching police departments.