zlacker

I wouldn't call it unreasonable. They were told to clear the streets. They didn't actually clear the street. They stayed on the street. Reporters not following directions.

>>spoile+(OP)
According to CNN's timeline the police asked them to move at 5:09 AM, the reporter asked where they wanted them, at 5:11 AM the police arrested them. The reporter was not given the chance to follow directions.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/george-floyd-protest-update...

>>spoile+(OP)
Instructions from some random cop are not laws

>>tehweb+m1
In my state, one must comply with any order from a police officer who is in uniform and acting in the performance of his or her duties. This is a law with criminal consequences.

>>sowbug+Gb
Any order? Even illegal ones?

>>sowbug+Gb
Which state is that?

>>paperc+X
This is a pragmatic point of view, not necessarily what I believe is "right":

Generally speaking, you don't stand around and try to have a conversation with the police. In a tough situation, the very last priority of the police is helping CNN get a nice camera shot.

Had they moved immediately upon being given the order to clear the street, then attempted to have the conversation, they likely would not have faced arrest.

>>sowbug+Gb
So "uniformed cop" tells you to "shoot that person", you have to do it?

So "uniformed cop" tells you to put a soldier up in your house, you have to do it?

So "uniformed cop" tells you to empty your pockets and stand clear while they ransack your house?

>>spoile+(OP)
There's a girl in shorts standing around behind the police -- you're going to tell me she's an officer?

They are just trying to get the camera crew out of there.

>>sowbug+Gb
My neighbour was 'arrested' by two men in police uniform, they later murdered him, burned his body, threw remains in the river and sold his car for parts. Him family only found out after the car parts showed up in repair shops.

So not everyone in uniform is a police officer.

>>paperc+X
I'm not commenting on this particular case, since we don't have all of the facts yet, but it should only take seconds to comply with a lawful order, not minutes.

>>zdragn+Ne
"Helping CNN get a nice camera shot" is something you read into this.

Asking where to move to is a reasonable question to ask the police. Arrest is not a reasonable response.

>>spoile+(OP)
> I wouldn't call it unreasonable. They were told to clear the streets. They didn't actually clear the street. They stayed on the street. Reporters not following directions.

It was recorded, you know. You can watch it yourself. They were asked to move, they asked where they should move to, and instead of being told where to go they were arrested.

>>strong+8g
Just watch the video; it was a live broadcast of the whole encounter. They were told to move, asked where was OK to move, the cops didn't give an answer (ostensibly communicating with superiors over radio), and then they were simply arrested.

There's no additional facts here.

>>strong+8g
This only works if officers only ever give orders for good reasons. Oftentimes they give orders as a pretext to arrest you for noncompliance.

>>sowbug+Gb
>In my state, one must comply with any order from a police officer

Surely you are mistaken. As but one example, if a cop shows up at your house and says you need to let him in to search, you can tell him to stuff it.

>>monoca+gh
Edit because thread depth:

Y'all were right, the footage I saw earlier was clipped after the girl had ran.

That's enough of trying to see all sides for me today. This week is hell.

----------------------- It was not a live broadcast of the "whole encounter" it was a live broadcast that started in medias res after the reporters were clearly surrounded by multiple officers of the law.

Not to mention that for the hour preceding 05:00 CDT, the National Guard and Minnesota State Troopers were announcing over loudspeakers that anyone in the area was to disperse immediately or face arrest.

So, it begs the question - what happened in the minutes leading up to when the camera started rolling?

Is it possible the crew had already been told to leave or they would be subject to arrest, and the crew did not follow this?

>>kfrzco+bo
They were released 30 minutes later, with the governor apologizing saying there was no reason for them to be arrested.

You're absolutely on the wrong side of this. On the wrong side of illegal arrests of the press. Of fucking CNN literally live broadcasting.

> That statement is what fng hurts me to read - it's a mentality that whatever is presented is it, facts, reality, no questioning needed.

I watched it live.

>>sowbug+Gb
Any lawful order, I'd suspect.

That's an important distinction. If you're ordered to shoot yourself in the head by a cop, "no" is a perfectly reasonable answer, and likely to stand up in court.

>>monoca+Tp
> You're absolutely on the wrong side of this.

Are we counting being skeptical of a claim as taking the opposite side? Seems like the user is trying to understand the situation rather than advocate for a side.

>>hcknws+Bl
You're in your rights too for sure, but given the semi-recent history of not giving a fuck 4th amendment along with how quickly the general public is to justify anything done by police officers I'd be scared as hell to do so.

>>hanifc+Mw
It's not being skeptical, it's in fact the exact opposite of any form of skepticism: it's being so credulous to one "side" that you make up falsehoods to excuse bad behavior, instead of using that same time to look for actual facts.

I don't know how this style of thinking has in the past decade or so come to be thought of as "skepticism," it's just incredible bias against one side. A skeptical though process would be inventing equally fabulous motivations in all directions, not just one.

>>sowbug+Gb
I don't know which state you're in, but all the state statutes I've seen saying that you must follow a police order use the words "lawful order" in the text. Also many of them have limited domain such as "while on a public road" or "during a civil disturbance".

In the "refuse to move on after police asked you to" scenario here, the NYC case "People v. Galpern" is often used as precedent. In that case the defendant was found guilty simply because he was, in the officer's view, obstructing the sidewalk. He was not otherwise disturbing the peace. From this case, the courts tend to side on the judgement of the arresting officer unless there are extreme circumstances.

>>techno+uF
I'm in California. In our state, it's part of the Vehicle Code, but courts regularly construe it as applying anywhere in public. I have personal knowledge, unfortunately, that violating the California Vehicle Code is in many cases a criminal and not civil matter. The statute doesn't include any qualifier that the order be lawful. I suspect that "and was performing his duties" is meant to cover that question, representing a legal fiction that cops would never issue an unlawful order.

For those who are interested in reading beyond Galpern, some other relevant classic cases are Terry v. Ohio and People v. Cohen.

>>zdragn+Ne
It's possible the police were saying things that couldn't be heard on television because the mic was not in front of their mouths and they were wearing huge masks.