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1. danali+(OP)[view] [source] 2020-04-17 18:21:54
"Everyone else does it" is a red herring, even if Amazon weren't arguably sui generis. And this isn't about hate. I simply decline to participate in behavior that is unapologetically wrong.
replies(2): >>exolym+O3 >>enitih+n4
2. exolym+O3[view] [source] 2020-04-17 18:50:17
>>danali+(OP)
> I simply decline to participate in behavior that is unapologetically wrong.

You don't, though, which is the other person's point. Unless you've radically changed your consumption habits to only buy directly from producers (and ecommerce is ruled out, since you're not okay with the typical conditions of logistics employment). In reality, you've singled out Amazon. Which is fine! But at least admit that. It's a political statement, you haven't achieved labor rights veganism.

replies(2): >>enitih+A4 >>danali+dL1
3. enitih+n4[view] [source] 2020-04-17 18:53:27
>>danali+(OP)
You don't buy anything anywhere? What do you not participate in? You don't buy from any store which doesn't pay 30$ per hour or something similar? You don't buy products made by poorly paid workers? So no laptop and no smartphones? You sir, have my salute if you are typing this on an ethically made computer.

Off course, it is totally fine to participate in things and also criticise them, as that is how things improve. But if everyone obsess on a company not in the bottom of bad behaviour, this simply gives more power to companies behaving worse. One can off course claim that their criticism depends on the PR perception of the company,but I guess that's not fashionable.

I don't think the argument is everyone else does it. The argument is Amazon is paying much higher than many other companies for the same job, and still being focused over, while companies paying less get a free pass.

replies(2): >>Apocry+s5 >>lozani+P6
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4. enitih+A4[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-17 18:54:47
>>exolym+O3
Yup, the majority of the people on this thread claiming complete disassociation with bad behaviour are not offering the alternatives used by them, as if it is a kind of secret society.
replies(1): >>Apocry+ft
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5. Apocry+s5[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-17 18:59:28
>>enitih+n4
Costco is probably an easy substitute, given their reputation for good treatment of its workers and comparable deals and ease of delivery.

Edit: or maybe not.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22901893

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6. lozani+P6[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-17 19:06:34
>>enitih+n4
This got me thinking, do you actually know of an entirely ethically made computer? I'd be interested in checking such a thing out if it exists.

Interesting concept when you consider how deep the supply chain is for all the raw materials. The provenance on lithium and silicon would be critical I'd think.

replies(1): >>fumar+Sh
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7. fumar+Sh[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-17 20:22:46
>>lozani+P6
Where do you draw the line? Where do you start to care, or is it all too linked and impossible to unravel?
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8. Apocry+ft[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-17 21:52:36
>>enitih+A4
Try this:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alternatives-to-amazon-walmar...

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9. danali+dL1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-18 15:13:42
>>exolym+O3
"Labor rights veganism" isn't the goal. You seem to be suggesting that unless someone can achieve ethical perfection, there's no point in doing anything. I don't agree with that.

You also seem to be applying black-and-white thinking to problems of right and wrong. Some things are more wrong than others.

On a scale from "single mother cheating on her taxes so she can feed her kids" to "cold-blooded murder," Amazon is (in my opinion) beating puppies with sticks. When someone does something not just wrong, but inexcusable, and is unapologetic, I don't say to myself, "well, lots of other people have done/do bad things." I doubt you do either.

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