zlacker

[parent] [thread] 31 comments
1. legits+(OP)[view] [source] 2020-04-03 16:23:33
I don't understand what is expected here. Nobody can get masks or sanitizer. What little there is is getting redirected to hospitals. It's not even a money thing.

This person is advocating boycotting Amazon and going to local grocery stores instead. What the hell? How is that better?

replies(7): >>Wowfun+A1 >>lm2846+B1 >>dehrma+r2 >>rootlo+K3 >>joshl3+U3 >>segmon+Bp >>adev_+Py
2. Wowfun+A1[view] [source] 2020-04-03 16:30:25
>>legits+(OP)
> This person is advocating boycotting Amazon and going to local grocery stores instead.

Where does he say that?

replies(1): >>wizzwi+o3
3. lm2846+B1[view] [source] 2020-04-03 16:30:26
>>legits+(OP)
> This person is advocating boycotting Amazon and going to local grocery stores instead. What the hell? How is that better?

amazon will survive this easily, your local shops won't.

replies(1): >>throaw+Z1
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4. throaw+Z1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-03 16:31:51
>>lm2846+B1
But what about my survival if I go to the grocery store mor often and get sick and die?
replies(2): >>lm2846+D6 >>void44+Dc
5. dehrma+r2[view] [source] 2020-04-03 16:33:23
>>legits+(OP)
You can't get blood from a stone.

This reminds me of a class of housing advocates who insist a higher minimum wage or rent control will solve housing problems. No, you still have 1 unit for 1.x people; the overriding issue is supply.

replies(3): >>derefr+A6 >>viklov+ry >>0x262d+zz
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6. wizzwi+o3[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-03 16:36:36
>>Wowfun+A1
> If you’re an Amazon customer, here’s how you can practice real social distancing: stop clicking the “Buy now” button. Go to the grocery store instead. You might be saving some lives.
replies(2): >>zbyte6+k5 >>Wowfun+kk
7. rootlo+K3[view] [source] 2020-04-03 16:38:06
>>legits+(OP)
It's expected that Amazon would protect their workers by being transparent about the situation, implementing special procedures in warehouses to prevent the infection from spreading between workers, offering workers paid time leave when they show symptoms.

They could, for instance, limit the orders they accept to base necessities like food, cleaning supplies, etc.

replies(2): >>legits+i4 >>thebea+dM
8. joshl3+U3[view] [source] 2020-04-03 16:38:37
>>legits+(OP)
The expectation here is to realize how dependant we are on Amazon, and how we tolerate the unsafe working condition at Amazon warehouses. Remember peeing in the bottle fiasco?
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9. legits+i4[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-03 16:39:57
>>rootlo+K3
> They could, for instance, limit the orders they accept to base necessities like food, cleaning supplies, etc.

They already did. https://www.wired.com/story/amazon-warehouse-essential-goods...

replies(3): >>rootlo+35 >>joshl3+Y5 >>amanap+9i
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10. rootlo+35[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-03 16:42:51
>>legits+i4
Maybe more aggressively than

> If you want to purchase, say, a hula hoop, you'll still get it as long as Amazon has them in stock.

replies(2): >>jbay80+P5 >>legits+x6
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11. zbyte6+k5[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-03 16:43:54
>>wizzwi+o3
Sounds like he is also saying there is more social distance involved in buying groceries than ordering Amazon and the latter is more risky to human lives.
replies(1): >>nogabe+Vd
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12. jbay80+P5[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-03 16:45:26
>>rootlo+35
A jumbo hula hoop is exactly what I need to maintain a 2m social-distancing radius
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13. joshl3+Y5[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-03 16:45:49
>>legits+i4
> For now, Amazon is still delivering nonessential products that are already stocked in its warehouses. It just won’t accept replenishments from vendors and sellers for the next three weeks.

So they're still selling non-essential stuffs, just not restocking their warehouse with them.

replies(1): >>briffl+x8
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14. legits+x6[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-03 16:48:01
>>rootlo+35
Not sure about you - but there's a 30 day shipping delay for me on non-essential Prime products in stock.

I agree that setting rules and transparency is a good thing - but a lot of that probably depends on the management at that particular warehouse.

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15. derefr+A6[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-03 16:48:04
>>dehrma+r2
> This reminds me of a class of housing advocates who insist a higher minimum wage or rent control will solve housing problems. No, you still have 1 unit for 1.x people; the overriding issue is supply.

As someone who lives in a housing market where at least 30% of houses + apartments are sitting empty for months/years because their owner is being irrational (i.e. unwilling to drop to a market-clearing price), "rent control" (in the form of not just preventing rents from rising, but also capping the initial lease price landlords are able to ask for) would fix a lot of things.

Of course, anyone who thought the new rules would mean they could no longer profit in the market could get out of the market, selling off their real-estate assets. There'd be no limit on purchase prices for ownership transfer. But, of course, without the hyper-inflated (even though illiquid!) rental income, the units would be inherently less valuable, so they'd lose resale value, too.

replies(2): >>rwmj+ra >>nogabe+dd
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16. lm2846+D6[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-03 16:48:15
>>throaw+Z1
Wash your hands, don't touch your face and keep your distance. Basically what we're doing in Europe for 3 weeks.
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17. briffl+x8[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-03 16:56:27
>>joshl3+Y5
How do you make room for essentials in a full warehouse?
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18. rwmj+ra[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-03 17:04:11
>>derefr+A6
> "rent control" (in the form of not just preventing rents from rising, but also capping the initial lease price landlords are able to ask for) would fix a lot of things.

Why would this stop houses from being left empty? It seems a better idea for stopping housing being left empty is to heavily tax houses which are left empty.

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19. void44+Dc[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-03 17:13:42
>>throaw+Z1
There are also grocery delivery services that are not Amazon if you actually care about local grocery stores.
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20. nogabe+dd[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-03 17:16:25
>>derefr+A6
>> because their owner is being irrational

You state this like it's an obvious measure; you're irrational over 2 months is my rational over 2 years.

Vancouver was absolutely booming in February after some of the steam was released in late 2019. Those vacancies are primarily because owners are using the house as a value store. How would caps on initial rental rates help at all? Those same owners would just never list them.

Rather than arbirtrarily cutting owners off at the knees, forcing them out, it would seem easier if you just left the area.

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21. nogabe+Vd[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-03 17:19:21
>>zbyte6+k5
Maybe, but IMO it would be easier to enforce social distancing using processes for employees than what I'm seeing at grocery stores amongst a disperate group of self-centered jerks.
replies(1): >>wizzwi+7Tu
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22. amanap+9i[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-03 17:37:57
>>legits+i4
They didn't limit orders from customers, they limited what their suppliers can send them.
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23. Wowfun+kk[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-03 17:49:23
>>wizzwi+o3
Thanks! I missed that.
24. segmon+Bp[view] [source] 2020-04-03 18:21:07
>>legits+(OP)
Have some empathy. If you worked in the warehouse or have a family member that does, you might feel different. The issue is not that grocery stores are better, but that if someone get's sick, at least sanitize and deep clean if that makes your workers happy.
replies(1): >>void44+mS
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25. viklov+ry[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-03 19:13:25
>>dehrma+r2
Oh that's cute, you think we don't have enough housing. No, the problem is that wealthy individuals hoard housing and refuse to allow people who need it to access it. A wealth tax would likely solve the problem entirely.
26. adev_+Py[view] [source] 2020-04-03 19:16:19
>>legits+(OP)
> I don't understand what is expected here. Nobody can get masks or sanitizer.

I'm currently in France under quarantine. Almost all supermarkets got their workers mask or protection screens, same for bakeries, same for police forces.

Amazon workers still don't have any protection at all. None of them.

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27. 0x262d+zz[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-03 19:20:20
>>dehrma+r2
This is completely mistaken, sorry. Most west coast cities have many times more vacant units than homeless people. It's easy to source that and completely refutes the "supply" argument. But it's more profitable to build luxury units or keep them empty for airbnb than it is to build affordable housing.
replies(1): >>dehrma+Eq1
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28. thebea+dM[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-03 20:53:05
>>rootlo+K3
The line for essential is blurry. If I need a keyboard and a monitor to work from home and Amazon won't sell it, I'll unfortunately just go somewhere else, putting a different company's employee at risk.
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29. void44+mS[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-03 21:44:39
>>segmon+Bp
Empathy is precisely what Amazon and people arguing in favor of Amazon are lacking.
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30. dehrma+Eq1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-04 05:19:25
>>0x262d+zz
You're forgetting about all the two bedrooms in SF with someone sleeping in the living room where they all make six figures. And for that matter, that trickle down works for housing. As long a you increase supply that's affordable by someone, that frees up a cheaper unit. Now, this does induce demand, and as housing gets more and more affordable somewhere like SF, it draws people back in from places like Oakland.

The homeless bit is a false dilemma. While housing the homeless can be cheaper than the services they require from living on the street, luxury condos aren't making them homeless, and freed up inventory won't go to them, it will go to someone making six figures with too many roommates.

Homelessness is incredibly tricky because there are different causes of homelessness. There's struggling service sector workers living out of their cars, but there are also homeless with severe mental health issues and drug addictions (cue the SF Civic Center Bart station video). Housing them somewhere could make sense, and it's an inefficient use of money to do it in urban centers, but at the same time, it feels unethical to put the problem out-of-sigh in some remote ghetto. That, and you need coordination for any sort of homeless policy like that so cities don't start busing their homeless elsewhere.

replies(1): >>0x262d+WQ4
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31. 0x262d+WQ4[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-05 23:11:52
>>dehrma+Eq1
Trickle down housing doesn't work, at least at the stage of the problem we are at. Building expensive housing sometime frees up a "cheaper" unit but if the cheaper unit is unaffordable to most people, as is the case in most places that have seen massive inflation in rent costs, that doesn't do most people any good.

While luxury condos don't "make" homeless people homeless; they're just a graphic depiction of how flagrantly housing prioritizes profit over the actual use value of housing people. And they could make homeless people not homeless if we had a sane system.

As for support for homeless people, I agree that it's tricky and we shouldn't just shove them somewhere, but it's not insurmountable EXCEPT when systems for supporting people are systematically defunded and people are kept without the support/job/community they need. And that's the case everywhere. It seems much harder than it is because it's impossible to solve within unrestrained capitalism, which is the natural state capitalism slides towards all the time.

As one final point, it isn't inefficient in any real sense to have people live in cities. In fact, with reasonable infrastructure (admittedly nonexistent in the US), it is much more efficient in terms of any real resources for people to live densely, especially if they need support. The only way in which it is inefficient is that landlords and profiteers siphon wealth away and drive costs up to the sky. This is a solvable problem but it is a problem of capitalist market anarchy, just like cities busing their homeless away.

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32. wizzwi+7Tu[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-04-16 14:18:33
>>nogabe+Vd
It would be easier, but Amazon's not.
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