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1. rohan1+(OP)[view] [source] 2019-12-16 13:26:50
Few days back, I was thinking on similar lines about Instagram. It does not respect norms of our society. Consider this, our society deeply values competence but Instagram does not seem to take it into consideration at all. A user promoting his content or using proper hashtags or generating activity on platform will be promoted more than the user who just posts brilliant photographs.

Who I maintain relations with and who I don't is not other people's business similarly who I follow and who I don't follow should not be visible to anyone except me but that is not the case.

I can go on and on about similar things but the bottom line is everything on Instagram is designed in a way such that it generates more activity on platform and ultimately more revenue. This is true for almost all the social networks though. A social network that respects norms of our society and does not attempt at maximizing revenue at users expense will probably fill the void left by the existing ones.

replies(6): >>Nextgr+d2 >>GavinM+H3 >>homonc+74 >>pjc50+Q7 >>askafr+Tv >>scarej+W81
2. Nextgr+d2[view] [source] 2019-12-16 13:55:01
>>rohan1+(OP)
The app is not a tool to serve you, instead the app turns you into the tool to serve itself.
replies(2): >>classi+b5 >>munifi+oD
3. GavinM+H3[view] [source] 2019-12-16 14:10:53
>>rohan1+(OP)
What void left by the existing ones? Instagram, for example, is going stronger than ever. It's accomplished its goal of generating more and more activity on the platform.

What reason do you have for thinking the public at large is worried about the norms of society being maintained?

4. homonc+74[view] [source] 2019-12-16 14:14:08
>>rohan1+(OP)
The attention economy is fundamentally cancerous. It is based on the premise that actually creating utility is more expensive than simply hijacking your mind with skinner box mechanics.
replies(1): >>classi+z5
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5. classi+b5[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-12-16 14:22:53
>>Nextgr+d2
You hit the nail on the head. This is the actual, real, definition of "free" (as in "free to use"). Every instance of that term should be surrounded by red blinking scare quotes.
replies(1): >>Nextgr+t6
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6. classi+z5[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-12-16 14:25:42
>>homonc+74
... or tracking the living shit out of you and selling every private detail they can get hold of.
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7. Nextgr+t6[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-12-16 14:34:36
>>classi+b5
Or regulation that curbs our outlaws this cancerous business model. If you can't profit without wasting people's time and/or stalking them then you shouldn't be in business.

We have regulation that somewhat works (there are exceptions of course and corruption is a thing, but at least there's an attempt) for other negative impacts on society (environmental damage, etc) but absolutely nothing for tech despite these new apps & services turning people into addicted zombies.

8. pjc50+Q7[view] [source] 2019-12-16 14:44:18
>>rohan1+(OP)
> our society deeply values competence

[citation needed]: we're well into the "public has had enough of experts" era.

replies(1): >>hawkic+wA1
9. askafr+Tv[view] [source] 2019-12-16 17:22:18
>>rohan1+(OP)
> Few days back, I was thinking on similar lines about Instagram. It does not respect norms of our society. Consider this, our society deeply values competence but Instagram does not seem to take it into consideration at all.

I don't think this is quite right. Instagram mirrors society and amplifies it.

In fact if anything, Instagram levels the playing field. Now anyone can go on IG and gain an audience. Whereas in the past, you'd have to go through a series of gatekeepers for your work as a photographer to see light of day and get in front of an audience. And that process was much more flawed, and didn't guarantee competence either.

Don't get me wrong, Instagram has many problems - but not in the way you're suggesting.

> Who I maintain relations with and who I don't is not other people's business similarly who I follow and who I don't follow should not be visible to anyone except me but that is not the case.

Then make your profile restricted? You don't have to have a public presence on Instagram. Lots of people lock their account down.

> This is true for almost all the social networks though. A social network that respects norms of our society

What even are these "norms of our society" that you keep referring to? There are no norms - there are really only moments in time. Whatever bubble you're living in, is simple one possible version of reality even in your own country. Again, you may not like it - but Instagram is a mirror of society in many ways. Norms are changing all the time. There is no guarantee that the "norms" you grew up with as a child will endure through your adulthood and so there shouldn't be an expectation of it either.

I'm sure similar arguments you're making were also made for Radio and TV when they were the primary carriers of culture and media.

replies(1): >>rohan1+kE
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10. munifi+oD[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-12-16 18:01:59
>>Nextgr+d2
It is both. The app takes your attention and divides it up into (A) things you want to give your attention to (people you follow) and (B) things you don't (ads).

It's not just about (B). There is a tricky balancing act involved. A company that does too much (B) ends up with an app that users don't like and stop using. A company that does too much (A) produces a beloved app right up until the point that the company runs out of money and folds.

replies(1): >>TeMPOr+791
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11. rohan1+kE[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-12-16 18:06:41
>>askafr+Tv
> Instagram mirrors society and amplifies it.

Can you give me examples of this? Because I don't see it amplifying anything but its own revenue. I do see it amplifying negative traits of humans though.

> Instagram levels the playing field. Now anyone can go on IG and gain an audience.

That's what social media is for. In fact, its a basic requirement.

> Then make your profile restricted?

I have a private account. What about the 200 followers that I have? They can still see what I follow and not long ago they could also see what I like.

Why do you even need to show people how many people I am following or how many followers do I have or how many likes I have on my photos. We don't go through life telling everyone how many friends do I have, do we?

Some people do want to show it but at least give us the control of these things?

> There are no norms - there are really only moments in time.

Lost you here.

12. scarej+W81[view] [source] 2019-12-16 21:10:08
>>rohan1+(OP)
It's a social network and honestly one of the most pro-user ones out there. What it's really good at is recreating the web of positive activity that happens when friends meet and share what they've been up to.

On all platforms, its home view is that of things you've consciously chosen to curate to see. The home view has both overt and subtle indicators to tell you to leave the app: all the stories to view no longer have the red outline, the post you scroll past says "You're all done".

The notion that society rewards high competence people who do not promote is also prima facie nonsense. That is not at all the case, not economically, not socially, nothing. If you want to be seen, you have to promote.

Because, let's be honest, your photo is 10x as valuable to your friends because you took it. If I'm looking at the universe of photos, the probability that you took one in the top 20 I want to see today might as well be a measure-zero set and the utility I gain from that photo is such that I need a discovery engine to bring it to me to be worth it. I won't look for it. The cost-benefit is negative as soon as I type in a single search term.

But that shaky handheld phonecam video of my friend fucking around with glow poi and hitting my other friend in the face? That is cost-benefit positive at up to 1 hour of search. And that makes sense, because it's a true social network, it's about the digital equivalent of your social circle.

Instagram is a magical social network. It is the circle of friends meeting for a Sunday afternoon hangout, your rave crowd, your dorm room buddies. It is happiness incarnate.

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13. TeMPOr+791[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-12-16 21:11:34
>>munifi+oD
> A company that does too much (A) produces a beloved app right up until the point that the company runs out of money and folds.

Because they have to compete with people doing lots of (B), and giving the app away for free. I'm increasingly feeling that "free + ads/surveillance" is the problem.

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14. hawkic+wA1[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-12-16 23:55:52
>>pjc50+Q7
You're very optimistic, thinking it's an era and not a deeply human and permanent aspect of society.
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