zlacker

It's been shown that Cloudflare's DoH service is a lot ado about nothing, and is actually worse for privacy, not better:

* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21071022

Likewise for 1.1.1.1 — when taking into consideration the local caching appliances that the ISPs have invested in, the lack of ECS would make the clients go all the way through the internet for the same content that's already cached locally by the ISP for users of all other decent resolvers — this will only contribute to increased costs for the individual ISPs, extra latency for users, and more competitive advantage of your products due to you diminishing the technological advantages of your competitors, without regard to the actual user experience of the users, or the reliability and scaling of the internet infrastructure at large.

Not to mention that such Netflix/YouTube usage, when going directly through transit providers and through the whole internet, would also subject the users to a greater chance of surveillance at large compared to users of resolvers that would access local copies on the caching appliance.

>>cnst+(OP)
Except in the US the ISPs are some of the biggest surveillance organizations themselves. They are also highly monopolized so most people in the US are on one of a very small number of ISPs

>>pixl97+W8
Which is a good argument for not using your ISP's DNS either, but those are not the only two options.

One of the better alternatives is to get a VPN you trust that puts multiple users behind the same IP address and then operate your own recursive DNS from behind there. The VPN service itself could still log your queries, but at least they have plenty of competitors, and you chose one you trust, right? Or if you don't want to trust any one party, use Tor.

>>cnst+(OP)
It has been argued, I wouldn't say that it has been shown. Both my ISPs operate a DNS blacklist. So did my previous ISPs, in the country I previously lived in. And in a third country, where I was on holiday. ISPs even in the USA are gnashing their teeth at the prospect of losing visibility into DNS. Why would they care if they weren't using that data? Why do they need a subscriber -> [domain] mapping? Routing tables don't care about domain names. Edge caching of web content doesn't work with https. I might care about DNS caching if the ISPs haven't demonstrated time and again that they will abuse my privacy for a buck, after I've already paid them for the privilege.

I trust Cloudflare much more than I trust any ISP I've had to deal with, including American ISPs when I lived there. I trust Google much more than any ISP, and I'm not particularly charitable towards Google.

Centralized DoH isn't perfect, but it's better than the status quo. The SNI hole is shrinking. My threat model does not include defending against the Mossad doing Mossad things with my email^H^H^H^H^HDNS[1].

[1] https://www.usenix.org/system/files/1401_08-12_mickens.pdf