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[parent] [thread] 17 comments
1. ekianj+(OP)[view] [source] 2019-08-08 11:14:56
> Strict moderation is the reason HN is the only reasonable discussion forum remaining on the internet

Not at all. It's rather the community that makes it a reasonable discussion space. Most people here understand that this is not Reddit and that proper answers are needed when you interact with other members. Of course moderation is useful and necessary in certain cases, but it's certainly far from being the key factor here.

replies(5): >>abacad+Y2 >>rubidi+B6 >>danso+M8 >>xtract+59 >>jfenge+GA
2. abacad+Y2[view] [source] 2019-08-08 11:49:45
>>ekianj+(OP)
Without the moderation the trolls take over, and then it doesn't matter what most people here understand.
replies(1): >>ekianj+b4
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3. ekianj+b4[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-08-08 12:01:23
>>abacad+Y2
I highly doubt "2 moderators" would be able to do anything if half of the community was composed of trolls. The fact that trolls are very few in the first place, and not welcome by other members who flag them and downvote them to hell, make it possible for it to work even with a low level of moderation.
replies(2): >>duxup+Z5 >>unreal+Vw
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4. duxup+Z5[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-08-08 12:21:18
>>ekianj+b4
Making trolling less visible / viable practice is the work of moderators.

Enough HN members are happy to feed the trolls (even if unwittingly) and encourage more without removing them.

replies(1): >>ekianj+yl
5. rubidi+B6[view] [source] 2019-08-08 12:25:58
>>ekianj+(OP)
No, it really does make a difference. I've got a close friend who's been involved in many discussion forums, both as user and mod. His experience is mods are the critical link that prevent the community from descending to ugly chaos.

The community helps... but someone needs to be doing some policing to limit the effect of the bad actors or the community starts to get pissed off/wander off/degrade into pettiness.

replies(2): >>ekianj+8l >>celtic+cV2
6. danso+M8[view] [source] 2019-08-08 12:44:25
>>ekianj+(OP)
When I first started commenting, I remember being shocked (and annoyed) at how downvoted I got for making the kind of reply-snark that gets tolerated (if not upvoted) on Reddit – and that tone-setting is certainly a function of the community.

But that was almost a decade ago. The mindset of the tech community has gotten far more political (not a bad thing, but a natural consequence of "software eating the world"), and it's really hard to imagine that HN would have turned out like it is today through self-policing alone.

Even if we assume HN were to collectively agree on taking a hard stance against anything political in nature (which still seems to be the case sometimes, given that the mods have to occasionally step in and manually de-flag and protect threads), that would've likely turned off a number of current HN users who see HN as a great place to discuss tech's greater implications and role in society.

7. xtract+59[view] [source] 2019-08-08 12:47:48
>>ekianj+(OP)
I agree and want to put /. as an example. In the 2000's I used to visit /. as much as I visit hn now. At that time there were plenty of great comments and sometimes even people like John Carmack posted there. Sure there was GNAA spam and similar, but the mod system took care of that.

Nowadays the mod system remains but the community has moved on and although the stories are good, there is no intellectual discussion.

A similar thing happened to OSNews. Another news aggregator I used to visit a lot.

replies(1): >>JudgeW+Lv1
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8. ekianj+8l[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-08-08 14:11:56
>>rubidi+B6
> who's been involved in many discussion forums,

in many discussion forums... that are not HN. There is only one HN, so you can't make comparison with other communities out there.

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9. ekianj+yl[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-08-08 14:14:19
>>duxup+Z5
> Making trolling less visible / viable practice is the work of moderators.

Downvoting, flagging works even when the mods are not around. I am pretty sure that a comment flagged too many times is greyed out and almost invisible (and that happens without mods).

Again, if we are to believe there are only 2 full time moderators on HN for the amount of comments going every single minute, it's virtually impossible to rely on mods alone for proper discussions: simple maths.

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10. unreal+Vw[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-08-08 15:32:41
>>ekianj+b4
1 moderator is infinitely better than 0.

I run a group of 20,000+ people, and if I didn't set the tone on what the group is about, regularly, the value of it would drop to nothing.

I love my community. But I absolutely recognize the role I play in keeping it a nice place to visit.

11. jfenge+GA[view] [source] 2019-08-08 15:58:33
>>ekianj+(OP)
The moderators help determine the community. Insufficient moderation changes the community: the most obnoxious voices drive away reasonable ones. New users who prefer that mode of discourse stay; users who want "reasonable discussion" are discouraged and go elsewhere.

It's easy when a community is small. The more prominent the community gets, the more it tempts people who enjoy stirring things up.

In the end I'm not sure if any moderation scheme can prevent that, to be honest. There will always be people who consider it a challenge to see what they can get away with, either by trying to stay just under the moderators' radar or by returning every time they're banned. Provocation makes people defensive, and then their own replies turn harsh, contributing to a negative perception of the community.

I do hope that this community avoids it as long as possible. I've discovered it only recently and am enjoying it. But past experience suggests that it, too, will one day degrade.

replies(1): >>fouc+CE
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12. fouc+CE[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-08-08 16:25:32
>>jfenge+GA
HN has been around a looooong time now. Sure, some people will pine for the good old days, but as far as I'm concerned, HN is fairly stable.
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13. JudgeW+Lv1[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-08-08 21:55:21
>>xtract+59
what's happening here is reddit-style comments have been slowly but steadily creeping in. I dont blame the mods directly, but indirectly they should have just capped membership once the tone lost its tech edge and comments began to drift to "me too!/relevant username/orange man bad/etc" about 30-40% (by my estimation) of HN comments are what reddit comments were a few years ago. The only way to fix that is to throttle membership.
replies(1): >>krapp+gw1
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14. krapp+gw1[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-08-08 21:58:21
>>JudgeW+Lv1
Why do opinions like yours always seem to come from accounts less than a year old?

Unless you're presenting yourself and your own comment history as an example of the problem... in which case, the opportunity is always there to try a bit harder.

replies(1): >>JudgeW+tw1
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15. JudgeW+tw1[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-08-08 21:59:36
>>krapp+gw1
Absolutey irrelevant to my point. Why do so many of your comments in your post history denigrate women and minorities?
replies(2): >>krapp+Vw1 >>dang+6P1
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16. krapp+Vw1[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-08-08 22:03:15
>>JudgeW+tw1
>Absolutey irrelevant to my point.

It isn't, because unless you've been lurking for years or have an alt account, you're just being an elitist poser. People have been complaining about HN "turning into Reddit" for so long that it used to be listed in the guidelines as a common, semi-noob delusion.

>Why do so many of your comments in your post history denigrate women and minorities?

Point them out to me, please. I'm usually defending women and minorities here, and often getting downvoted for the effort.

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17. dang+6P1[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-08-09 00:59:15
>>JudgeW+tw1
If you continue to break the site guidelines, we're going to have to ban you again. Could you please not do that? Using HN as intended is not hard if you want to.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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18. celtic+cV2[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-08-09 14:29:39
>>rubidi+B6
all mods believe they're the critical link. That conceit is why the mods on reddit started making subreddits private for a day in protest.
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