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Google Protest Leader Leaves

submitted by tech-h+(OP) on 2019-07-16 12:48:27 | 265 points 386 comments
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7. Admira+md[view] [source] 2019-07-16 14:27:37
>>tech-h+(OP)
I thought this story had already been reported a month ago. But no, I was wrong, that was the other organizer of the Google Protests, Claire Stapleton:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jun/07/google-wa...

So to clarify, both of the female Google employees who lead/organized the protests have now left because they say they faced retaliation. That looks very bad for Google.

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17. Admira+ne[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 14:33:22
>>dmix+Zd
https://www.wired.com/story/google-walkout-organizers-say-th...

>In a message posted to many internal Google mailing lists Monday, Meredith Whittaker, who leads Google’s Open Research, said that after the company disbanded its external AI ethics council on April 4, she was told that her role would be “changed dramatically.” Whittaker said she was told that, in order to stay at the company, she would have to “abandon” her work on AI ethics and her role at AI Now Institute, a research center she cofounded at New York University.

>Claire Stapleton, another walkout organizer and a 12-year veteran of the company, said in the email that two months after the protest she was told she would be demoted from her role as marketing manager at YouTube and lose half her reports. After escalating the issue to human resources, she said she faced further retaliation. “My manager started ignoring me, my work was given to other people, and I was told to go on medical leave, even though I’m not sick,” Stapleton wrote. After she hired a lawyer, the company conducted an investigation and seemed to reverse her demotion. “While my work has been restored, the environment remains hostile and I consider quitting nearly every day,” she wrote.

Both are now gone.

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18. geofft+oe[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 14:33:22
>>Admira+md
Liz Fong-Jones (who left Google earlier this year after some 11 years there) tweeted about this last night: https://twitter.com/lizthegrey/status/1150960547803860993

Of the walkout organizers alone, four out of seven have now left.

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19. colone+we[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 14:34:07
>>dmurdo+be
I seem to remember reading an article on "rest and vest" employees.

Here it is: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14943146

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37. knd775+Jf[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 14:40:25
>>SpicyL+Rd
https://www.wired.com/story/google-walkout-organizers-say-th... >In a message posted to many internal Google mailing lists Monday, Meredith Whittaker, who leads Google’s Open Research, said that after the company disbanded its external AI ethics council on April 4, she was told that her role would be “changed dramatically.” Whittaker said she was told that, in order to stay at the company, she would have to “abandon” her work on AI ethics and her role at AI Now Institute, a research center she cofounded at New York University.
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69. onetim+3h[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 14:48:50
>>Jasper+9g
Nothing. But more or less https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR3fD5YyN3g She lost, so she's moving to the next company with an * to her name no doubt.
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70. cobook+4h[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 14:48:50
>>Phasma+Zf
https://www.teamblind.com/blog/index.php/2018/08/16/65-perce...
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105. user17+Ni[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 14:59:12
>>KirinD+zg
Imho it isn't relevant. The implication of OP is that the fact that they are female paints Google in a bad light, not that they were protest leaders.

Corporations do not care about gender, it's all about power and control, and they do not care about the gender of those who they have to dismantle to keep it.

The Canadian Documentary "The Corporation" is a good example of how corporations behave: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y888wVY5hzw

Dividing Media narratives help to keep people from realizing who's their common enemy.

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108. Merril+3j[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:00:46
>>KirinD+zh
What did she do that is protected under the various whistleblower protection laws? https://www.whistleblowers.gov/sites/wb/files/2019-06/whistl...

I don't think that objecting to your company's AI work for DoD or plans to comply with Chinese internet search regulations fall under any of them.

What did the "Open Research Group" at Google actually build?

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115. TheHyp+gj[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:01:52
>>peteey+Lh
Google's motto was don't be evil. I believe it was removed.

Source: https://gizmodo.com/google-removes-nearly-all-mentions-of-do...

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123. iamthe+Ij[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:04:34
>>Siempr+Ri
I'd argue they quit practicing it when they IPOd, but technically the removal of the phrase from their Code of Conduct was more recent.

https://gizmodo.com/google-removes-nearly-all-mentions-of-do...

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125. pvg+Nj[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:05:24
>>dmix+mi
incredibly politicized concept as "equal compensation" (which doesn't exist [...]

Take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_pay_for_equal_work

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131. paul79+bk[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:08:37
>>Admira+md
Also, Google’s R&D blatantly steals innovation from female inventors

https://patentpandas.org/stories/company-patented-my-idea

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146. oldman+dl[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:14:25
>>dmurdo+be
Google has been implicated in this in the past (though I disagree that fuschia is solely a retention program): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17569631
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164. sverig+wm[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:22:01
>>Solace+gh
She was active in organizing the petition drive that successfully pressured Google to keep Kay Coles James off the committee. [0] [1] [2] [3] [4]

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/apr/01/google-ka...

[1] https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2019/04/google-employees-call-on-...

[2] https://dailycaller.com/2019/04/04/leftist-googlers-kay-cole...

[3] https://dailycaller.com/2019/04/05/google-drops-heritage-fou...

[4] https://www.newstarget.com/2019-04-06-leaked-emails-suggest-...

177. chupa-+qn[view] [source] 2019-07-16 15:27:23
>>tech-h+(OP)
Almost same content but w/o free article limit:

https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/16/20695964/google-protest-l...

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210. nvrspy+cr[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 15:52:00
>>TheHyp+gj
Google doesn’t really have a “motto” or “corporate philosophy” publicly available anymore. It’s just the Code of Conduct now. “Don’t be evil” used to be in the preface, but it was moved to the end of their Code of Conduct. However, it does feel less salient and it kinda feels inconsequential now though.

> And remember… don’t be evil, and if you see something that you think isn’t right – speak up!

https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct/

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229. DannyB+Kt[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 16:11:13
>>enrage+Mo
So, just to point out - the person is talking about badmouthing, you are talking about whistleblowing.

These are not the same thing at all.

In the US, talking about improving working conditions is also protected, but it's also not whistleblowing, either.

As a lawyer, i can tell you a lot of people badly misunderstand what "protected concerted activity" covers. It is not about your individual complaints. Explicitly not.

See, e.g., https://www.employerlaborrelations.com/2019/04/30/nlrb-publi...

"Charging Party 2 posted a 23-minute live video on Facebook during work hours and while in uniform talking about the discipline for wearing improper shoes and the confidentiality provision in the disciplinary notice, referencing the wage-and-hour lawsuits, making crude and disparaging jokes and comments about a supervisor, and stating that by asking Charging Party 2 to sign something interfering with free speech, the conduct of the company’s officials was “against the United States Constitution and you need to be shot on sight.”

As far as i can discern, hacker news would consider this protected because it complains, somewhere, about their working condition, and was in fact done as a direct response to being disciplined.

However, NLRB says

"The Division of Advice found that although Charging Party 2 referred to subjects in the video that could have been relevant to employees’ mutual aid or protection, the comments were entirely individual complaints and there was no indication that Charging Party 2 was speaking for other employees or seeking to act in concert with others. ... "

(They found it okay to fire this person)

In fact, the company had filed defamation lawsuits against the charging parties over the facebook videos, and the NLRB found that was okay too, because they weren't for protected activity.

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239. wmered+tv[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 16:23:17
>>303spa+Dm
It certainly helps that they've protected themselves from the ability to "delete Google" with an embrace, extend (or buy), extinguish[0] strategy when it comes to the technologies at the core of the modern web.

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...

266. shay_k+eD[view] [source] 2019-07-16 17:14:05
>>tech-h+(OP)
I'm surprised no one has linked Meredith Whittaker's statement on this:

https://medium.com/@GoogleWalkout/onward-another-googlewalko...

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269. depart+sE[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 17:24:17
>>gdy+PB
Do you not know how to use google?

<https://ainowinstitute.org/research.html>

270. hnthro+vE[view] [source] 2019-07-16 17:24:34
>>tech-h+(OP)
she's a fraud. https://googlersagainstdeceit.blogspot.com/
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288. userna+ZK[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 18:06:53
>>paul79+Uq
Googles patent trolling is gender blind.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/06/inventor-says-go...

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291. skybri+tL[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 18:09:51
>>Merril+BH
I only know a little about it, but it seems like financial companies commonly have a permanent compliance department?

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/compliancedepartment.as...

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300. gdy+oP[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 18:37:37
>>depart+sE
You missed the word 'exactly'. Can you summarize her work so that it doesn't sound trivial or bogus?

Just looking at the titles I expect something similar in quality to articles debunked here: https://arxiv.org/abs/1905.09866

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302. dang+YQ[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 18:48:46
>>colive+6j
Would you mind reviewing the site guidelines? They ask you not to take HN threads further into flamewar and not to call ante-upping names like "rats".

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

311. franim+VT[view] [source] 2019-07-16 19:11:27
>>tech-h+(OP)
Cute timing wrt Whittaker’s departure, considering Peter Thiel’s diatribe against Google just yesterday regarding Google’s involvement in proceedings with China. [1]

Meanwhile, Facebook assumes widespread immunity in ethical ontology within Thiel’s (goofy) narrative, all being quite selectively convenient given Thiel sits on FB’s board.

Both stories were initially broken by Bloomberg, which is also charmingly harmonic, temporally. Thiel likely pushed to collate onto Whittaker’s thunder is my (mere) immediate speculation.

Disclaimer: Worked as an engineer at Bloomberg 8+ years (now in academic scientific research), I doubt Bloomberg consciously coordinated the stories but anything’s possible, I suppose. (as mentioned, more likely the stories coordinated themselves in alignment to Bloomberg publication - if anything).

1. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20447055

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318. dang+eW[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 19:32:23
>>damnyo+7g
We just asked you yesterday to stop taking HN threads further into flamewar. We ban accounts that do that. We have to, because doing that destroys the curiosity this site exists for. Would you please review the site guidelines and take the spirit of this site more to heart when posting here?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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319. dang+GW[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 19:35:11
>>_zachs+Yj
Please don't post personal attacks to HN or call names in arguments.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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321. dang+QW[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 19:36:32
>>KUcxrA+2k
Would you please stop using this site for ideological battle so we don't have to ban you again?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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328. dang+SX[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 19:43:44
>>geofft+Ve
Please don't take HN threads further into ideological flamewar. Comments like this lead to train wrecks. Presumably the trains are shipping tires because after they wreck we get tire fires.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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330. dang+TZ[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 19:59:03
>>r3bl+Hv
Would you please stop posting in the flamewar style to HN? You've done that repeatedly in this thread, including crossing into personal attack. That helps nothing and only makes this place worse, regardless of how bad another comment is or how right you feel you are.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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351. cobook+rd1[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 21:45:58
>>cobook+ug
Sry. Source was from a blind thread. Not an internal thread. Mixed the two up

https://us.teamblind.com/s/5YFH3CqL

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352. cobook+xd1[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 21:46:25
>>cobook+3s
Sry. Source was from a blind thread. Not an internal thread. Mixed the two up

https://us.teamblind.com/s/5YFH3CqL

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354. cobook+Bd1[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 21:46:55
>>cobook+8g
Sry. Source was from a blind thread. Not an internal thread. Mixed the two up

https://us.teamblind.com/s/5YFH3CqL

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360. bougal+4o1[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 23:23:30
>>knd775+3g
She was instrumental in organizing the opposition to Key Coles James -- see the 'ATEAC' section of https://googlersagainstdeceit.blogspot.com.
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362. bougal+ho1[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-16 23:25:13
>>KirinD+on
There is no such thing as the 'Open Research Group', outside of Meredith. see https://googlersagainstdeceit.blogspot.com.
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371. dang+fN1[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-17 04:16:01
>>depart+sE
Please don't cross into personal attack and snark, regardless of how wrong another comment is or you feel it is. That only makes this place worse. Your comment would be just fine without the first sentence.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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372. dang+kN1[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-07-17 04:17:18
>>gdy+G11
You crossed into personal attack and name-calling in this thread. Would you please review the site guidelines and follow them when posting here? Note particularly: "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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