zlacker

[parent] [thread] 13 comments
1. davids+(OP)[view] [source] 2010-11-23 18:28:36
'Perhaps I'd like to see people a little quicker with the "flag" button; perhaps I'd like to see the site tuned so that flaggers can more easily win the race against thoughtless up-voters.'

What happens when the 'thoughtless upvoters' find the flag button as well though? I don't think flagging posts is the solution to this problem.

People are never going to see eye to eye about what content belongs on the site and what content doesn't. There's no amount of convincing or flagging you can do to change this.

This is a tech-centric community, there's enough talent here to come up with a good tech-centric solution to the problem.

Something as simple as being able to apply a subtractive filter to the main page could go a long way. I.E. '-TSA -scanner' or something along those lines.

replies(2): >>tptace+w >>tsycho+Q
2. tptace+w[view] [source] 2010-11-23 18:35:42
>>davids+(OP)
The TSA posts are manifestly off topic:

Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.

The first TSA post was (marginally) germane. The TSA is now on the front page of CNN. Unfortunately, HN "blessed" the topic by spinning off gigantic discussion threads on early TSA stories. So, even though this is a current events topic currently being covered on network TV news, it still finds a place here.

I bring this up not to further the argument about the TSA on Hacker News, but rather to demonstrate a pathology that occurs when we accept borderline stories that end up breeding months-long narratives in dribs-and-drabs. I also say this as someone who has written many hundreds of words here in comments on TSA stories.

As for filtering the front page: you might as well suggest "sub-HN's", like Reddit. Part of the point of the site is that it focuses a lot of interesting brains on a single spool of stories and discussions.

PS: For what it's worth, this is actually not a tech-centric community full of tech-centric ideas for community building problems. HN is a deliberately simple site curated by a single guy who started it as a demo for his programming language and liked where it went. Very few of the technical ideas anyone has proposed for this site have been tried, much less adopted; that's just not how HN works. This is a community governed by norms more than by code.

replies(3): >>davids+f1 >>jdp23+i1 >>lothar+a2
3. tsycho+Q[view] [source] 2010-11-23 18:40:39
>>davids+(OP)
Agree, even a simple button to remove stories permanently from our individual views would help a lot.

If PG doesn't want to do that due to performance issues, maybe one of the useful Chrome/Firefox plugins out there could add that at the browser level. I'll try to build this one of these weekends; will post it if it works well.

replies(1): >>Nathan+y1
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4. davids+f1[view] [source] [discussion] 2010-11-23 18:45:29
>>tptace+w
I'm not arguing that the posts are on topic. What I'm saying is that you have no control over the so called 'thoughtless upvoters'. If you start flagging. They will start flagging, even if it's just out of spite.

I'm not taking sides here, and throwing the rulebook at me isn't helping to solve the problem.

The filtering suggestions was the first example technological approach to solving the problem that popped into my head. I agree that there's a danger of fragmenting the community with that sort of change, but filtering out '-TSA' is hardly the equivalent of having a 'TSA sub-HN'.

Regardless of whether the filtering idea is good or not, I'd like to see more suggestions on how to fix the problem.

replies(1): >>tptace+l1
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5. jdp23+i1[view] [source] [discussion] 2010-11-23 18:46:10
>>tptace+w
the TSA posts are also potentially examples of "anything that good hackers would find interesting". the story about the guy not going through the scanners coming back into the country is a classic example of a hack. the excellent comment by 'aphyr on the radiation post was enormously technically interesting. etc. etc.

and they cover Twitter, Google, Facebook, etc. on TV news. they all seem to be popular on HN

replies(1): >>tptace+u1
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6. tptace+l1[view] [source] [discussion] 2010-11-23 18:46:37
>>davids+f1
There's a karma threshold to flag stories.

If we're going to "- TSA" filter the site, I'd be happy if 'pg just fired up a REPL and did that to news.arc.

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7. tptace+u1[view] [source] [discussion] 2010-11-23 18:48:45
>>jdp23+i1
The problem with this is, "anything good hackers would find interesting" is the rule that allows 'carbocation to comment here about the molecular biology of human metabolism on HuffPo stories about high-fructose corn syrup, and you want that to happen. But it's also the rule that allows whole comment threads consisting of nothing but people quoting Ben Franklin and the 4th Amendment at each other on TSA stories, to no end.

That there is someone here that can write engagingly about the dosimetry of backscatter machines proves my point. Yes, there are TSA discussions that have value to HN. That's the mouse hole the swarm of TSA stories crept in through. This is the pathology I'm talking about.

"Anything that good hackers would find interesting" is a norm that is being abused.

replies(1): >>jdp23+B1
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8. Nathan+y1[view] [source] [discussion] 2010-11-23 18:50:01
>>tsycho+Q
I was planning to build a site called HN Filter which would use the (unofficial) API from api.ihackernews.com

Basically it would allow each person to filter out stories based on keywords (perhaps "TSA", "iPad", or whatever their pet peeve is), by URL (to get rid of blogs they don't want to see), or by user (in the case of personal feuds).

In the end I started working on another startup before I got into this idea, but someone else might enjoy working on it.

replies(1): >>tptace+L1
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9. jdp23+B1[view] [source] [discussion] 2010-11-23 18:50:17
>>tptace+u1
but i could make the same argument that "avoid politics" is being abused by people who for whatever reason don't want to see stories about clever hacks or problems with startup life that happen to be related to travel
replies(2): >>tptace+H1 >>jdp23+Nb
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10. tptace+H1[view] [source] [discussion] 2010-11-23 18:51:46
>>jdp23+B1
Don't be disingenuous. I've been reading the TSA stories; the TSA is a political topic that happens to bait me very effectively. These discussions are not about the impact of the TSA on startups.
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11. tptace+L1[view] [source] [discussion] 2010-11-23 18:52:52
>>Nathan+y1
We might as well just allow pictures of kittens. After all, you can always build a kitten-free HN aggregator site if you don't like them.
replies(1): >>Nathan+88
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12. lothar+a2[view] [source] [discussion] 2010-11-23 18:59:00
>>tptace+w
> The TSA posts are manifestly off topic

The guidelines leave an opening for politics and even religion, so long as you're contributing something genuinely new, which has been true of a few of the TSA stories.

The rest need to be flagged aggressively.

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13. Nathan+88[view] [source] [discussion] 2010-11-23 20:47:16
>>tptace+L1
That was exactly my line of thought as well, and the reason why I decided it was a waste of time to pursue. I just mentioned it, however, because it is an idea that anyone can build themselves if they personally can't stand some element of HN and decide they want to filter it out.
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14. jdp23+Nb[view] [source] [discussion] 2010-11-23 21:49:10
>>jdp23+B1
it really cracked me up that my comment was voted down so heavily ... especially given's Matt's point about how people misuse downvoting
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