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[parent] [thread] 18 comments
1. jakeog+(OP)[view] [source] 2018-08-17 07:48:41
Alexa should be treated as a different kind of stranger. I think it's a huge mistake for children to talk to computers. It's inherently dishonest for a single voice to represent something so manipulative and fluid as if it's a person.

Amusing example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MECcIJW67-M

replies(9): >>Alterl+P4 >>wiz21c+Ea >>gumby+6m >>cs02rm+Er >>tialar+4v >>cptski+8z >>philip+GD >>bitwiz+EE >>simsla+VY
2. Alterl+P4[view] [source] 2018-08-17 09:01:16
>>jakeog+(OP)
> Alexa should be treated as a different kind of stranger.

This is a beautiful analogy and it applies for adults interacting with Alexa / Google home as well.

3. wiz21c+Ea[view] [source] 2018-08-17 10:27:45
>>jakeog+(OP)
It's not amusing at all. It's incredibly spot on. Alexa has very limited knowledge and 0 interpretation skills, but, worse than all, behaves as if it does.

(note that, in a sense, a book has very limited knowledge and 0 interpretation skills, but its behaviour is passive).

replies(2): >>gianca+Yd >>sevens+Kn
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4. gianca+Yd[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-17 11:13:27
>>wiz21c+Ea
Indeed, I hate that AI is such a buzzword when what we have are a fraction of where we need to be. We have jigsaw puzzle pieces, really tiny ones in what feels like an infinitely large (or who knows how many pieces) jigsaw puzzle.

I don't mind them being called "Voice Assistants" though, but don't tell me it's AI or ML, since it doesn't truly learn, it calibrates your voice if anything. It doesn't do a darn thing on it's own, someone has to tell it to do that thing, like in some cases the very human communicating. When they are fully autonomous... THEN I'll be happy, and creeped out at the same time.

The real change with AI will be if the masses are allowed to build their own relatively easily enough. When even kids are allowed to be creative with different AI's it will get interesting enough.

Sadly some megacorp will buy it out and lock it up is more likely to happen.

replies(2): >>auslan+0j >>tallti+6o
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5. auslan+0j[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-17 12:16:25
>>gianca+Yd
> ... but don't tell me it's AI or ML, since it doesn't truly learn

Give it time and it'll be like in the movies. I'm a tinfoil hat, vpns, adblockers, but that youtube made me want one, it's funny :)

replies(1): >>gianca+Js
6. gumby+6m[view] [source] 2018-08-17 12:51:27
>>jakeog+(OP)
That is a profound framing of the device. Thanks.
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7. sevens+Kn[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-17 13:06:35
>>wiz21c+Ea
I was in college before I learned not to believe everything I read. Everything needs context. I tell my kids that voice interactive devices are just robots running programs written by people, and they're always at least as wrong about things as the people who wrote them. Most importantly, don't trust a robot when it tells you something that doesn't make sense. It's probably wrong.

I wish somebody had told me that about books when I was a kid.

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8. tallti+6o[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-17 13:08:47
>>gianca+Yd
> don't tell me it's AI or ML, since it doesn't truly learn

The term AI is a minefield to talk about. But machine learning is well defined and it’s definable you machine learning even though Alexa “doesn’t learn”. Alexa uses applied models which where built using machine learning techniques. Like it or not that’s just the facts.

9. cs02rm+Er[view] [source] 2018-08-17 13:40:32
>>jakeog+(OP)
I think it's a huge mistake for children to talk to computers.

I'm not so sure I'd go that far, or that it's any more dangerous than a web browser.

My kids are quite young and I'm happy for them to talk to Alexa, under supervision. They need to learn to deal with potential dangers before they encounter them without parental supervision.

Mind you, we play with fire too so maybe just ignore me.

replies(1): >>auslan+Qz
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10. gianca+Js[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-17 13:49:51
>>auslan+0j
Maybe Mycroft?

https://mycroft.ai/

11. tialar+4v[view] [source] 2018-08-17 14:16:54
>>jakeog+(OP)
"Explain protocol," Nell said. This was how she always talked to the Primer.

"At the place we're going, you need to watch your manners. Don't say 'explain this' or 'explain that.'"

"Would it impose on your time unduly to provide me with a concise explanation of the term protocol?" Nell said.

Again Rita made that nervous laugh and looked at Nell with an expression that looked like poorly concealed alarm.

- "The Diamond Age" by Neal Stephenson

What's going on here is that Nell has, without even really setting out to, pierced the fiction that her second utterance is really different from the first. Humans react badly if you treat them obviously as automatons, but disguise it even slightly and somehow that's fine.

She code switches from a modality that's convenient for addressing her instance of Runcible (a powerful AI with the outward physical appearance of a large old book) to one for addressing teachers and people in authority and she does it seamlessly, so that the effect is unnerving.

replies(2): >>yoz-y+oG >>crooks+2H
12. cptski+8z[view] [source] 2018-08-17 14:48:17
>>jakeog+(OP)
> It's inherently dishonest for a single voice to represent something so manipulative and fluid as if it's a person.

What are you referring to when you say "something"?

It's strange that you find dishonesty in these personal assistants but then shared a subversive piece of propaganda as an "amusing" video.

The video you shared is suppose to be a friendly fireside chat by two everyday gentlemen trying to objectively discuss the manipulative subversive left leaning nature of the digital assistant. The video however is a form of propaganda and manipulation because the two gentlemen are clearly very right leaning in their ideology and sit there being quietly outraged when Alexa answers questions in a manner that is in opposition to their ideology.

To you it's a "huge mistake" for child to interact with a "manipulative" computer as if it's a person with actual opinions, and thoughts; but it's ok for you to share "amusing" videos of guys being mildly outraged that a computer is respectful of a transgender person when they clearly disagree with showing Katlin Jenner any form of respect.

If anything this video is the type of subversive manipulative bullshit that people should be fearful more so than a stupid little hockey puck that most kids find to be silly and frustrating.

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13. auslan+Qz[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-17 14:52:46
>>cs02rm+Er
This is the most reasonable comment. Train their immunity system, you cannot protect them from tech forever.
replies(1): >>Yingli+AA
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14. Yingli+AA[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-17 14:57:29
>>auslan+Qz
Families that browse 4chan together, stay together.
15. philip+GD[view] [source] 2018-08-17 15:21:15
>>jakeog+(OP)
This isn't amusing, its an overly-dramatic "watch bros read wikipedia with Alexa and then ask vague followups that don't work" reaction video.
16. bitwiz+EE[view] [source] 2018-08-17 15:30:18
>>jakeog+(OP)
I don't think speaking to computers is a problem so much as speaking to someone's marketing-data-aggregating cloud service. This can even be explained to a child fairly easily, e.g.:

"Siri isn't the iPhone. She's a very powerful computer who lives far away, and talks to us through the iPhone. Just like you can talk to Grandma through it."

"Where does Siri live?"

"Well, um... she lives in a cloud, sweetie."

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17. yoz-y+oG[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-17 15:47:37
>>tialar+4v
Interesting. I guess that in real life both of those questions would be considered rude. The first as "too little effort and overly bossy", the second as an obvious ridicule.
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18. crooks+2H[view] [source] [discussion] 2018-08-17 15:53:51
>>tialar+4v
This makes me very interested in reading that book. Thank you for posting.
19. simsla+VY[view] [source] 2018-08-17 18:30:00
>>jakeog+(OP)
For what it's worth, this video appears to be bull.

For most questions, it will just read you the first line (or first paragraph) of the corresponding Wikipedia page. There have been cases that Alexa has said some embarrassing things, mostly because people edit controversial Wikipedia pages is embarrassing way, but I believe they are trying to be more robust to that.

To that point, asking these same questions to my alexa: - RE gender: same response, which is fair enough (and in line with what you'll find in most places online) - RE Muhammed: "the founder of Islam" - RE Jesus: "also known as (...) was a first-century Jewish preacher and religious leader.[12] He is the central figure of Christianity. Christians believe him to be (etc.)

The way how Alexa rambles (less pause during words, at full stops) the long text about Muhammed also makes me suspect this video is doctored.

But even if it isn't doctored, they definitely skipped the research step and went straight to bigotry and hyperbole...

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