zlacker

[parent] [thread] 1 comments
1. oblio+(OP)[view] [source] 2018-05-18 13:27:18
While I agree the US was generally benevolent, it did it because it knew it had the tech superiority. It's the same thing with the Opium Wars and China or Perry's gunboat and Japan: we'll force you to trade with us because we know our goods are superior and you'll buy them.

Same thing with the internet: the US was the biggest developed country, it had a large, stable, rich internal market, it had big universities churning out graduates (many of them coming from other countries!), it was the inventor of many tech things that make up the internet. So of course a less regulated internet would benefit it since its companies were best positioned to take advantage.

My guestion for the next 30-40 years: unless China screws up badly, it will overtake the US. It's simple math: a moderately rich Chinese population will overtake the US one, as it outnumbers it 4 to 1 or so. Will the US be as benevolent and open when it's the underdog?

Based on some reactions I've seen here, regarding the EU and the GDPR and also on reading a ton of comments about China, I'm not so convinced.

TL;DR: The US is reasonable, for a super power, but it didn't do it out of the goodness of its heart.

replies(1): >>advent+L2
2. advent+L2[view] [source] 2018-05-18 13:50:50
>>oblio+(OP)
> Will the US be as benevolent and open when it's the underdog?

US benevolence will increase in direct proportion to the extent that it isn't the sole global superpower (realistically it has been the sole superpower since WW2, the USSR power projection was mostly a facade, as it always had a terrible economy). Its perceived role as global policeman, has put it into an endless number of ridiculous positions (both politically and militarily). The less the US believes it has to be the prime actor in that regard, and the more the US has to inter-operate with everyone else in a normal fashion, the less obnoxious it will be about a lot of things. It will be able to semi-normalize back to closer to how other major nations behave.

Obviously the US will remain an outsidzed global superpower. Its economy and military scale alone will ensure that. However the coming future in which China is a real rival that can stand toe to toe, will force a number of fascinating adjustments to all politics around the globe (and I mean not just to US politics, all politics for all countries).

The real question to ask is, will China be benevelont with its future power? Look at what they're doing to their people right now for the answer (vast Muslim torture camps like the Mao days, where people are being forced with violence and psychological torture to give up their Islamic beliefs; literally torturing homosexual people to convert them away from homosexuality; restricting "homosexual speech" because it's anti-Socialism; wiping out what limited speech the people of China had acquired; using its military to annex the South China Sea away from its neighbors, which is 4x the size of France or Texas; etc). Now consider for a moment that that is China just getting warmed up as a global power, and consider what other horrific things they may choose to do under dictator Xi (dictatorships have a near universal record of getting worse, rather than better, as it pertains to human rights).

Consider that China has begun an aggressive expansion of its military outside of its borders (laying down plans to build numerous foreign military bases to give it global projection capability). Now one might fairly criticize the US for its global military expanse; however the US hasn't used its might to annex nations or territory globally, it hasn't actually acted as a traditional empire (ie Ramstein military base in Germany is no threat such that the US might suddenly attempt to annex Germany). Meanwhile China routinely threatens to invade Taiwan and annex it, they get upset if you so much as recognize Taiwan as an independent nation or talk to its leader directly. Maybe next week China will decide that Mongolia too is a proper part of the greater China strategy.

So with that growing power, is China suddenly going to become a soft benevolent giant? Or will they get worse? I think the answer is obvious and the planet should be terrified about what's coming. The entire Chinese approach is incompatible with democratic values across the board, and they are without question going to throw their weight around as it pertains to censorship (they already are). They're currently busy buying up Eastern Europe and using their investments to get countries like Greece to block actions against them as it pertains to eg the South China Sea. Imagine a world under the reign of Xi, forced by threat (direct or implied) to comply with how the the CPC operates China today. If people thought the US superpower behavior was bad (a democratic nation with vast human rights protections), that's going to be 10x worse.

[go to top]