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[parent] [thread] 8 comments
1. opo+(OP)[view] [source] 2017-12-10 05:37:38
>...That's why Libertaristan isn't on any maps.

I do wonder why people go out of their way to misrepresent libertarianism. This shouldn't have to be pointed out, but libertarianism != anarchism. To have any kind of working market, you need a functioning government that can protect property rights, provide for compensation if a contract is broken, etc, etc.

replies(1): >>_Tev+7a
2. _Tev+7a[view] [source] 2017-12-10 10:08:39
>>opo+(OP)
Because libertarians often misrepresent their intentions:

I heard way too often from them how "government does everything inefficently" and "everything would be better off served by private for-profit entities" or even "taxes are theft", when in reality they just want a bit smaller taxes and a bit less regulation.

Those might be extreme statements even for libertarians, but it's hard to recognize them as such when they infect almost every discussion about the topic.

replies(2): >>tobbyb+Pb >>opo+sl1
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3. tobbyb+Pb[view] [source] [discussion] 2017-12-10 10:54:14
>>_Tev+7a
The arguments are very basic, for instance government inefficiency. Every big organization is inefficient, be it government or a private entity.
replies(2): >>opo+Pl1 >>ric2b+a76
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4. opo+sl1[view] [source] [discussion] 2017-12-11 05:22:03
>>_Tev+7a
I suspect anyone who has been interacted with a government agency would say ay "government does everything inefficently" - you don't have to be a libertarian to notice that. Any large organization and particularly one that has no competition will tend to be inefficient.

I doubt many people who consider themselves libertarian would say something so absolute as "everything would be better off served by private for-profit entities" much less "taxes are theft".

>...when in reality they just want a bit smaller taxes and a bit less regulation.

Most libertarians would likely also consider this incorrect. For example, the 2 major political parties share major policies that libertarians are opposed too and would like to reform or stop. For example, both republicans and democrat parties support: the war on drugs, the increasing militarization of police, the national surveillance state, the Patriot act, registration for the draft, the TSA, etc, etc. I suspect that the average voter is opposed to at least some of these policies, so that is maybe why the those invested in the two major parties will try to stifle any discussion of these topics and why groups that oppose them are mischaracterized or attacked with straw man arguments.

replies(1): >>_Tev+La2
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5. opo+Pl1[view] [source] [discussion] 2017-12-11 05:32:36
>>tobbyb+Pb
If you need an example of trying to offer practical solutions, go to reason.org and you can probably find hundreds of pages of commentary, practical solutions, reviews, etc. The top story on the site looks like it is on the details of the current state of the air traffic control system. You can read the digital version of their magazine for free and in fact every issue they have ever published for close to 40 years. I don't think it is far to say that groups like these don't add anything to the national debate.
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6. _Tev+La2[view] [source] [discussion] 2017-12-11 17:21:10
>>opo+sl1
Well I heard those statements a lot, even on HN you can see them frequently.

And I don't think government does everything inefficiently, at least in our country (cz).

So what do libertarians represent really? Quick search for "libertarian manifesto" shows https://mises.org/library/new-liberty-libertarian-manifesto which talks about abolishing nation state and such. That is hard to reconcile with your PoV.

replies(1): >>opo+up3
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7. opo+up3[view] [source] [discussion] 2017-12-12 05:40:27
>>_Tev+La2
>...And I don't think government does everything inefficiently, at least in our country (cz).

I think smaller government is often more responsive. The Czech Republic is closer in population to some of the US states.

>...So what do libertarians represent really? Quick search for "libertarian manifesto" shows https://mises.org/library/new-liberty-libertarian-manifesto which talks about abolishing nation state and such.

I think Rothbard is probably promoting anarcho-capitalism there. Many libertarians would probably consider themselves closer to classic liberals. For example, here is a quote from a professor at NYU:

"...I consider myself both a libertarian and a classical liberal. … So there are important differences among liberals and libertarians but I view these are differences along a spectrum. Some are principled (“Never, ever, initiate the use of force”) and some are empirical (“Many public goods can be provided privately”) and some are hard to classify (“The NSA should not collect masses of meta data”). Some people will want to take these differences and harden them into different political philosophies with different names and so forth. But I suggest that libertarians and classical liberals have too much in common for any divorce."

https://thinkmarkets.wordpress.com/2014/02/05/libertarianism...

More practical ideas can be found in the works of groups like the Reason Foundation. As I mentioned in a different reply, at reason.org and you can probably find hundreds of pages of commentary, practical solutions, reviews, etc. The top story on the site looks like it is on the details of the current state of the air traffic control system. You can read the digital version of their magazine for free and in fact every issue they have ever published for close to 40 years. Another group is the The Institute for Justice (ij.org). IJ is a libertarian non-profit law firm that in their words:

>...Since 1991, IJ has come to the aid of individuals who want to do the simple things every American has the right to do—including own property, start and grow a business, speak freely about commerce or politics, and provide their children with a good education—but can’t because they find the government in their way.

IJ have brought 5 cases to the US Supreme Court, winning four. The case they lost was the Kelo case but there was a big enough outrage on that decision, that a number of states put in protections to their eminent domain laws.

replies(1): >>_Tev+fU5
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8. _Tev+fU5[view] [source] [discussion] 2017-12-13 08:19:49
>>opo+up3
That sounds way more reasonable, thanks for the writeup / links!
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9. ric2b+a76[view] [source] [discussion] 2017-12-13 11:50:05
>>tobbyb+Pb
The difference is that inefficient private organizations have to compete and are replaced by more efficient ones, while governments don't.
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