zlacker

I am a former homemaker and full-time mom. Most self proclaimed feminists I have interacted with have been virulently hostile, disrespectful and contemptuous of me. They seem to not see full-time motherhood as a legitimate choice at all. It sometimes feels to me like they wish a man would take care of them, but they don't know how to make that work, so hating on me is de rigueur.

It is one of the reasons I spend so much time on Hacker News. Most men are less aggravating for me to deal with.

It is also part of why I do not self identify as a feminist.

>>Doreen+(OP)
> I am a former homemaker and full-time mom.

My wife who is also a homemaker and stay-at home mom. She has heard remarks from family, acquaintances and even random parents playing with kids at the park how she was throwing her university degree down the drain and how somehow she doesn't "need to stay home" and can do whatever she wants. They don't seem to understand that what she wants to do currently is to raise kids.

>>rdtsc+Q2
There is some statistic showing that every dollar invested in our small children saves multiple dollars down the line for things like the prison system.

Any feminism that cannot honor, respect and support the importance of full time parenting is an ideology I want no part of. To my mind, the only good feminism is one that insists that full time parenting should be an equally legitimate choice for either parent, not just the mother.

>>Doreen+(OP)
I wish it didn't have to be one or the other. I guess it's human nature to tend towards thinking that choices have to be binary - I've often been guilty of it myself. Whenever somebody makes a choice that is different to our own we fear that it might dilute the possibility of us making our own choices, and so we become hostile. But it's important we work against this tendency.

I'm hoping that we'll be able to work towards a world have a world where stay-at home dads, stay-at home mums, surrogate pregnancies, same-sex parents, dual parental leave, etc, are all valid choices for bringing up children.

>>Doreen+(OP)
It's obviously hard to be feminist if you think women are worse than men.

Your experience of self proclaimed feminists and full time motherhood is very different to mine, and it's not just a generation gap because my mother was a full time parent and a feminist (still feminist, but spends less time parenting these days) and my sister is both as well.

I am also pretty skeptical of the interpersonal understanding and self awareness of women who explain that they just never get on with other women because of the issues those other women have, and men are just so much nicer - it's usually as much about their issues as anyone else's.

>>rdtsc+Q2
There's impolite people everywhere. If your wife worked outside the home she'd get impolite comments from family, acquaintances, and random strangers about working outside the home instead of being home with the kids.

Women who work outside the home get rude comments, women who stay at home get rude comments and you can't even avoid it by opting out of childbearing entirely, those women get rude comments too.

I fail to understand what that has to do with feminism or much anything else.

BTW, staying at home is the more socially acceptable choice.[1]

[1] http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2014/04/08/after-decades-of-d...

>>Doreen+l3
"To my mind, the only good feminism is one that insists that full-time parenting should be an equally legitimate choice for either parent, not just the mother."

I love this quote.

>>Doreen+(OP)
My wife has said the same. In addition feminists have been hostile to me over the fact that my wife is a SAHM as if she’s my prisoner in some sort of Handmaid’s Tale conservative dystopian fantasy.

>>astura+el
If your wife worked outside the home she'd get impolite comments from family, acquaintances, and random strangers about working outside the home instead of being home with the kids.

In this day and age? Does that still happen? Asking because honestly that’s so far from my personal experience.

>>Doreen+(OP)
There are many shades of feminism. Some women believe that modest clothing such as headscarves are empowering, shifting the focus on character rather than physical appearance, while other feminists will strongly disagree. For me it’s easier to accept that feminism is just an umbrella term for women’s right to do anything as she pleases just as easily as men can.

Plus it’s always in continuous change. Example: currently in the U.K. there’s a hot debate between (some) feminists and trans women [1] but who knows in the future, it would be 100% feminist to accept all self-identifying females as valid females.

Slightly off topic: Feminisim is a bit of a messy subject (imo), I wonder if one can have a clearer picture if it’s expressed in logical terms :o

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/nov/26/transgender-...

>>ryanma+TB
Yes, absolutely, it happens a ton. The Duggars even turn it into "wholesome family TV."

>>ryanma+GB
Once again, people being rude has nothing to do with feminism and why do you assume people making rude comments are "feminists" rather than just "assholes?"

Feminism is all about empowering women to make choices that are right for them, especially with regards to reproduction and childrearing.

If your wife wasn't a stay at home mom she'd get rude comments about working outside the home - it's called the "Mommy Wars"- ever single childrearing choice gets criticized by someone.

I get a massive amount of criticism and nasty comments, from everyone including strangers, for my reproductive choices as well, even though they are firmly "progressive" - I'm a married woman whose voluntarily opted out of childbearing. I also get nasty comments about not taking my husband's name.

It's become fashionable, in the Trump era, to use feminism and liberalism for some sort of scapegoat, or reason for bad things, no matter how absurd. I was at a BBQ and one kid hit another kid and, very seriously, the mom blamed feminism. Yep, feminism caused a minor dispute between siblings.

>>ryanma+TB
Ha! Yes, of course. I get this all the time. Shocked reactions from people when I tell them our baby is in daycare. Sometimes it's more subtle and framed as "oh, it's too bad you can't afford to stay home with him," as if it couldn't possibly have been my choice.

Which is to say, I have the highest respect for SAHM moms because it's a damned difficult job.