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[parent] [thread] 12 comments
1. mixmax+(OP)[view] [source] 2008-02-17 00:41:48
I don't entirely agree.

I have seen quite a few comments that were extremely insightful, and/or interesting that got downmodded due to an unpopular opinion. The reason this is unfortunate is not only that you tend to miss these (assuming that there is a higher probability that you read or think about comments that are rated higher, which I am surely not the only one that is guilty of) but also that it tends to promote groupthink . This is especially important on a forum like this where we are here to learn and share our thoughts, ideas and experiences for a very particular niche: Starting startups.

I have noted that comments that don't promote the "build it and they will come" view tend to be voted down. Since this site is primarily populated with hackers this is entirely understandable - it is human nature to think that your part of the project is the most important. But the reason we all come here is (I presume) to learn. And the things about which we know the least are the things where we have most to learn.

It is not only a question of abuse, but also a question of opening peoples eyes to issues, problems and points of views that lie outside their expertise, but which they will probably encounter in a startup. And this includes such diverse fields as marketing, financing and sales.

I am here to learn about stuff I didn't know already, and that is often outside my field. In return for this I will offfer my opinions in the fields where I may have something to contribute.

At the end of the day this makes us all better entrepreneurs. Because as anyone who has ever done a startup will tell you - you have to get everything right. Hacking, finance, sales, PR, marketing, hiring, etc.

So I think that the up and down arrows should not express agreement, but insightfullness or truth. Not opinion. That way I will be able to judge the validity of a comment in a field that I do not know well by its points. And hopefully learn something.

replies(4): >>greend+A >>yters+r1 >>foonam+z3 >>danmat+ADd1
2. greend+A[view] [source] 2008-02-17 01:49:35
>>mixmax+(OP)
Better to encourage people to read comments even though they've been downmodded. Ultimately voting is about the reaction people have to the comment, and trying to institute some sort of high brow rules is unlikely to work. I must admit I'll read comments that have been downmodded just to see what the controversy is - and those I agree with I try to back up.
3. yters+r1[view] [source] 2008-02-17 03:48:25
>>mixmax+(OP)
Highly downmodded comments stand out to me almost as much as highly upmodded comments.
replies(2): >>pchris+23 >>bishop+tJE
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4. pchris+23[view] [source] [discussion] 2008-02-17 06:57:40
>>yters+r1
I wish I had more votes to downmod you into prominence! J/k, I upmodded (for agreement)
replies(1): >>yters+w3
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5. yters+w3[view] [source] [discussion] 2008-02-17 07:53:32
>>pchris+23
Heh, it'd be funny to have the most negative karma on YC. The only reason I care about karma is cuz I want to change my header's color. Only 15 more points to go!

Once there, I'll stick a post on the front page and get downmodded into oblivion.

replies(3): >>Brando+U3 >>pistor+25 >>marcus+x5
6. foonam+z3[view] [source] 2008-02-17 08:03:14
>>mixmax+(OP)
>I don't entirely agree.

According to him, you should have just downmodded him. What's with all this discussion and reason?

replies(1): >>mixmax+o6
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7. Brando+U3[view] [source] [discussion] 2008-02-17 09:05:26
>>yters+w3
Couldn't you achieve that much more easily with a Greasemonkey script?
replies(1): >>yters+c4
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8. yters+c4[view] [source] [discussion] 2008-02-17 09:50:59
>>Brando+U3
Yeah, but where's the achievement then?
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9. pistor+25[view] [source] [discussion] 2008-02-17 12:31:42
>>yters+w3
I can't downmod stories? Not that I ever have too... It's easy enough to post a comments explaining why you don't agree with a story than to downmod it.

And that's where I take my queue for comments. If I agree/ laugh/ enjoy a comment I upmod it. If I don't agree I leave it. If the guy is trolling I downmod it.

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10. marcus+x5[view] [source] [discussion] 2008-02-17 14:16:51
>>yters+w3
I'm sorry to inform you but you don't get to keep your color if your karma drops below 250... although it is saved and it pops back when your karma passes 250 again. (already did the experiment :) )
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11. mixmax+o6[view] [source] [discussion] 2008-02-17 16:49:50
>>foonam+z3
Isn't discussion and reason why we are here?
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12. bishop+tJE[view] [source] [discussion] 2008-08-12 07:59:36
>>yters+r1
any publicity is good publicity
13. danmat+ADd1[view] [source] 2008-12-23 19:44:22
>>mixmax+(OP)
thanks for helping me think.

I hope that my opinion about trolls is worthwhile, and hopefully will be corrected if it's not. What I observed, but didn't hear directly stated: trolls feel threatened. For whatever reason, unfamiliarity sends some folks into a state of neurosis, an upsetting of their equilibrium.

I think of a troll partly in the case of the Three Billy Goats sense: the troll is an owner of a critical pathway. He collects tolls (tribute) a/or has a reputation to uphold in performing his daily routine. He is defining and defending the status quo. If he sees that you wish to build a new alternative (bridge), this threatens his current monopoly. Instead of scaling his current operations and building new bridges, outsourcing the admin of them, and franchising the operation, he wants NO NEW BRIDGES. Perhaps he inherited his power, or wrested it away in a primitive sense. Any evolution of methods that doesn't go the way he likes, he will thwart, dismiss, or destroy. Perhaps it's bullying, not to defend the troll, but to see things from his perspective: he was bullied, and overcame bullies to get where he is now. All he sees are threats and he doesn't want to play any new games. If you owned the phone lines, perhaps you're seeing wireless that way.

To return to your point: trolls aren't interested in learning new things about stuff outside their field. They aren't nomadic like the goats, so they see goats as merely trespassers, competitors, or as victims. Not as neighbors, partners, or customers. That would take a more open mind.

Part of rudeness is not knowing how really rude one is; the other part is not caring. Back to the old joke of when the punk is asked "are you ignorant or apathetic ?" he replies "I don't know and I don't care !" Perhaps it's natural that trolls see life as a zero-sum competition.

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