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Tell HN: Paywalls with workarounds are OK; paywall complaints are off topic

submitted by dang+(OP) on 2015-09-06 21:03:24 | 176 points 160 comments
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Publications like NYT, WSJ, the Economist, and the New Yorker have paywalls that leave ways for readers to work around them. Such stories are OK to post to Hacker News. Yes, it sucks, but losing that many substantive articles would suck worse. In the future, when someone doesn't understand this, please direct them to this thread or to HN's FAQ [1], which now makes this explicit.

Complaints about paywalls are off topic, so please don't post them. The spirit of HN is to discuss specific articles and avoid generic rehashing. Arguments about The Paywall Question are all the same. For an example of what we want to avoid, see [2]. For more on our thinking, see [3].

It's ok to ask how to read an article or to help other users by sharing a workaround. But please do this without going on about paywalls. Focus on the content.

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html

2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178012

3. https://hn.algolia.com/?query=by:dang%20paywall&sort=byDate&...


NOTE: showing posts with links only show all posts
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15. dang+i2[view] [source] [discussion] 2015-09-06 21:37:07
>>TeMPOr+d2
It's tempting. But https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10179116.
47. alexan+M3[view] [source] 2015-09-06 22:01:37
>>dang+(OP)
At Blendle we try to solve this with micropayments. NYT, WSJ and The Economist (and many others) are already working with us in The Netherlands en Germany https://medium.com/on-blendle/blendle-a-radical-experiment-w...
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61. dang+t4[view] [source] [discussion] 2015-09-06 22:10:55
>>digima+74
Yes, it's tempting to try to automate the problem away, or at least reduce it through software. But see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10179116.
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66. ikeboy+W4[view] [source] [discussion] 2015-09-06 22:18:45
>>JorgeG+J4
Several of those don't have real or full paywalls anymore.

I was thinking more of Elsevier, which actively sues websites that publish mirrors of papers (see https://torrentfreak.com/elsevier-cracks-down-on-pirated-sci...).

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67. dang+Z4[view] [source] [discussion] 2015-09-06 22:20:03
>>ikeboy+14
I commented about this at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10179203, though it isn't a complete answer.
78. downan+p6[view] [source] 2015-09-06 22:50:40
>>dang+(OP)
Is it OK to mention it when it appears that a poster is spamming paywalled content for a specific site? For example, this guy [1] stopped posting altogether almost immediately after I politely pointed out the sheer volume of paywalled WSJ articles he was posting [2]. It isn't inconceivable that this account (and many others) were created solely to spam paywalled content to HN. If we are forbidden from mentioning such things, I think we are going to have a problem around here with many more attempts by paywalled sites to exploit HN.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=abetaha

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9641922

99. TheLon+o8[view] [source] 2015-09-06 23:36:44
>>dang+(OP)
For one, I do not consider this OK.

For two, declaring rules and then declaring that no-one is allowed to talk about said rules sets a very dangerous precedent.

For three, pretty darn ironic that both this and http://deathtobullshit.com/ are on the front page at the same time.

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104. dang+N8[view] [source] [discussion] 2015-09-06 23:48:07
>>TheLon+o8
We wouldn't bother bringing this up if it weren't a major and increasing problem in the threads, such as https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178012.

It's also easily derived from the values of this site, which are no secret (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10179248) and have not changed.

116. nkurz+p9[view] [source] 2015-09-07 00:02:43
>>dang+(OP)
Long ago in the mists of time, some Usenet groups had a wonderful policy of self-moderation. If you wanted to post something, you had to figure out how to add an "Approved" header to your own post. A hassle the first couple times you had to do it, but great for overall signal-to-noise after that: http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/AltHackers

I'm occasionally tempted to think that HN should in the same direction: no links whatsoever, everything is plain text. You want to read the article, you cut-and-paste. Or write your own browser extension, or whistle it into a cell-phone or something. Terrible for rapid reading, but would definitely cut down on the complaining about paywall tags. One-click links probably violate some Amazon patent anyway.

Taking it a step farther, all submissions must be done rot13. If you can't figure out how to translate a link to rot13 (or install an appropriate browser extension), maybe you shouldn't be posting here. Not because you are inherently unworthy, but because you haven't bothered to read and follow the instructions. The instructions could be given on the bottom of the guidelines page, and all improperly formatted submissions could redirect to the guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I feel like it's either that, or more all-Erlang days:

  You can help the spike subside by making HN look extra 
  boring. For the next couple days it would be better to have 
  posts about the innards of Erlang than women who create 
  sites to get hired by Twitter.
pg, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=512145

And while you are at it, get off my lawn. :)

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120. dang+N9[view] [source] [discussion] 2015-09-07 00:16:05
>>gergle+I8
It's been pointed out to me that I shouldn't have said "anyone who doesn't get that doesn't get HN" because it sounds dismissive. So I'd word that differently now. The underlying point stands: many of the best articles posted to HN come from these publications. Wiping all that out—which a strong anti-paywall rule would do—would be disastrous to the intellectual curiosity that is core to HN.

> they should figure out which of the 18 different workarounds they can use

Workarounds are a nuisance but this exaggerates it. Overwhelmingly these articles come from a small number of sites that have the same few workarounds. Most people have internalized them long ago (or installed software to do so), and for anyone who hasn't, it's fine to share info like "open an incognito window" or "google the article title" in the threads. What's not fine is to turn every thread into the same old argument about paywalls.

> what exactly can you flag

You should flag things that shouldn't be on HN in the first place. But a New Yorker article on, say, Nabokov and butterflies obviously should be on HN. (Obviously, that is, given the mandate and history of the site.) Articles on offbeat topics that lead outside HN's core grooves are the most endangered species here. We need more of those. Flagging them is an abuse of flagging. Sometimes people do that because of paywalls, even when the paywall has a trivial workaround like an incognito window. That's what I was referring to.

Intellectual diversity is the founding value of this site: https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html. That's what I meant re "getting" HN. But I'll try to be more helpful than dismissive when communicating it.

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125. nkurz+0a[view] [source] [discussion] 2015-09-07 00:21:02
>>dang+G8
The Google scholar approach might work as a format. Official link as the hypertext, publicly accessible link (if available) in the right column. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=1273530321270058317...
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127. Buge+ea[view] [source] [discussion] 2015-09-07 00:29:48
>>huevin+K9
This site has a graph that say 55% of visitors to gaming sites use adblock http://contently.com/strategist/2015/07/10/why-adblockers-sh... . I would assume hacker news visitors would have a similar number. That would be an interesting thing to measure. Someone who gets to the front page of HN should measure what percent of people with a HN referer block ads.

And many ads are paid per view, not per click.

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129. voltag+ma[view] [source] [discussion] 2015-09-07 00:33:34
>>voltag+a8
Done. It's terrible. In its own repo so I can have pull requests that add extra sites.

Hit the "Raw" button on https://github.com/voltagex/hackernews-paywalltag/blob/maste... - linking directly is not a good user experience for anyone using GreaseMonkey

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131. voltag+Ca[view] [source] [discussion] 2015-09-07 00:40:16
>>vonkla+r2
Done: https://github.com/voltagex/hackernews-paywalltag/blob/maste... - click "Raw" and install it with GreaseMonkey
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136. mirimi+eb[view] [source] [discussion] 2015-09-07 00:55:28
>>nkurz+d7
What about http://sci-hub.org/ ?
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