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[return to "Reid Hoffman on the relationship between employers and employees"]
1. michae+Hb[view] [source] 2015-05-22 23:35:59
>>jrs235+(OP)
Frequently employers are so casual about references they either a) don't check them, or b) only check the ones the prospective candidate gives them.

See, that's a problem. That stands out more than any of the good things that he might say. People talk and things come out and shit happens, but deliberately going behind someone's back for back-channel references is just plain unprofessional, if not unethical. This is the kind of behavior that has the rest of the country (in which ethical standards aren't seen as old-fart ideals to be "disrupted" but are actually considered important) thinking that we, in tech, are a bunch of immature psychopaths.

The back-channel reference check is an unprofessional show of power-- like waving a gun around at work-- because it takes social access to get any information out of it (people don't just offer candid opinions up to complete strangers). What's communicated by the back-channel reference check is "your colleagues are more loyal to me than to you". There's a fucking reason why people outside of tech consider it unprofessional and borderline unethical.

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2. SamRei+Af[view] [source] 2015-05-23 01:17:27
>>michae+Hb
> People talk and things come out and shit happens, but deliberately going behind someone's back for back-channel references is just plain unprofessional, if not unethical.

It's not unprofessional or unethical.

> The back-channel reference check is an unprofessional show of power-- like waving a gun around at work-- because it takes social access to get any information out of it

For it to be a show of power, such an action would have to involve "showing" something. It's actually an attempt to avoid hiring bad employees -- that's the benefit people get.

> (people don't just offer candid opinions up to complete strangers).

This merely raises the threshold of badness before they might offer negative information. If their coworker was bad enough, they would. And do.

> What's communicated by the back-channel reference check is "your colleagues are more loyal to me than to you".

The miscommunication is on your end.

(Also, your former colleagues don't owe you or some potential employer "loyalty.")

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3. sheepm+Vl[view] [source] 2015-05-23 04:47:54
>>SamRei+Af
"It's not unprofessional or unethical."

In general it is unprofessional, unethical, and bad for the market.

Do I really need to explain why putting another persons current job at risk in order to gain a small advantage for yourself is unethical and unprofessional?

It is one thing if you have a team member or good friend who has worked with the candidate in the past and another entirely to go digging into somebodies working history to find old/current colleagues/managers to talk to.

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4. SamRei+Fm[view] [source] 2015-05-23 05:21:59
>>sheepm+Vl
It's not any of those things and avoiding bad employees certainly is good for the market, it prevents wasteful expenditure.

> Do I really need to explain why putting another persons current job at risk in order to gain a small advantage for yourself is unethical and unprofessional?

To say you're putting somebody's current job at risk is completely hyperbolic. They've already accepted your offer, if they lose their job (how?) and you hire them, you aren't putting them at risk. (And what, you think a past coworker is going to contact an employee's current boss and tell him the employee's going to leave? Yeah right. It's implausible that that would happen in any particular case, not implausible that it happened nonzero times in the universe, but again, you're hiring them anyway. Unless it turns out they're horrible to work with, in which case, the employer and the employer's other employees avoided a lot of needless suffering.)

> It is one thing if you have a team member or good friend who has worked with the candidate in the past and another entirely to go digging into somebodies working history to find old/current colleagues/managers to talk to.

You've put a distinction here but you lack an explanation why one behavior is immoral or unethical. (Specifically for old colleagues/managers.) Yes, you do need to spell it out. Or you could just not bother because who cares.

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5. sheepm+zn[view] [source] 2015-05-23 06:01:45
>>SamRei+Fm
"They've already accepted your offer"

What makes you think the kind of reference checks the article is talking about happens after an offer has been made and accepted?

In my experience these kind of reference checks happen well before an offer is made, and they are often run in parallel on the top few candidates. So the majority of people reference checked are not offered the role.

"And what, you think a past coworker is going to contact an employee's current boss and tell him the employee's going to leave?"

I've seen word get around plenty of times even without any backdoor reference checks going on.

"avoiding bad employees certainly is good for the market"

Except if you don't know the person you are talking to then how can you judge the accuracy of what they have to say when they provide a reference?

Edit: In fact if they want to do it it should be stated as part of their application process. Then people who feel it is invasive and unethical can simply not apply for those jobs. And if they do a great job at weeding out bad apples then eventually it will become accepted practice.

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