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1. serjes+ja[view] [source] 2025-01-21 23:24:37
>>tedsan+(OP)
You have to keep in mind Microsoft is planning on spending almost 100B in datacenter capex this year and they're not alone. This is basically OpenAI matching the major cloud provider's spending.

This could also be (at least partly) a reaction to Microsoft threatening to pull OpenAI's cloud credits last year. OpenAI wants to maintain independence and with compute accounting for 25–50% of their expenses (currently) [2], this strategy may actually be prudent.

[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2025/01/03/microsoft-expects-to-spend-8...

[2] https://youtu.be/7EH0VjM3dTk?si=hZe0Og6BjqLxbVav&t=1077

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2. throit+Oa[view] [source] 2025-01-21 23:28:37
>>serjes+ja
Microsoft has lots of revenue streams tied to that capex outlay. Does OpenAI have similar revenue numbers to Microsoft?
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3. tuvang+Uc[view] [source] 2025-01-21 23:42:24
>>throit+Oa
OpenAI has a very healthy revenue stream in the form of other companies throwing money at them.

But to answer your question, no they aren’t even profitable by themselves.

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4. manque+7f[view] [source] 2025-01-21 23:55:36
>>tuvang+Uc
> they aren’t even profitable

Depends on your definition of profitability, They are not recovering R&D and training costs, but they (and MS) are recouping inference costs from user subscription and API revenue with a healthy operating margin.

Today they will not survive if they stop investing in R&D, but they do have to slow down at some point. It looks like they and other big players are betting on a moat they hope to build with the $100B DCs and ASICs that open weight models or others cannot compete with.

This will be either because training will be too expensive (few entities have the budget for $10B+ on training and no need to monetize it) and even those kind of models where available may be impossible to run inference with off the shelf GPUs, i.e. these models can only run on ASICS, which only large players will have access to[1].

In this scenario corporations will have to pay them the money for the best models, when that happens OpenAI can slow down R&D and become profitable with capex considered.

[1] This is natural progression in a compute bottle-necked sector, we saw a similar evolution from CPU to ASICS and GPU in the crypto few years ago. It is slightly distorted comparison due to the switch from PoW to PoS and intentional design for GPU for some coins, even then you needed DC scale operations in a cheap power location to be profitable.

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5. Fade_D+Fk[view] [source] 2025-01-22 00:33:51
>>manque+7f
They will have an endless wave of commoditization chasing behind them. NVIDIA will continue to market chips to anyone who will buy... Well anyone who is allowed to buy, considering the recent export restrictions. On that note, if OpenAI is in bed with the US government with this to some degree, I would expect tariffs, expert restrictions, and all of that to continue to conveniently align with their business objectives.

If the frontier models generate huge revenue from big government and intelligence and corporate contracts, then I can see a dynamo kicking off with the business model. The missing link is probably that there need to be continual breakthroughs that massively increase the power of AI rather than it tapering off with diminishing returns for bigger training/inference capital outlay. Obviously, openAI is leveraging against that view as well.

Maybe the most important part is that all of these huge names are involved in the project to some degree. Well, they're all cross-linked in the entire AI enterprise, really, like OpenAI Microsoft, so once all the players give preference to each other, it sort of creates a moat in and of itself, unless foreign sovereign wealth funds start spinning up massive stargate initiatives as well.

We'll see. Europe has been behind the ball in tech developments like this historically, and China, although this might be a bit of a stretch to claim, does seem to be held back by their need for control and censorship when it comes to what these models can do. They want them to be focused tools that help society, but the American companies want much more, and they want power in their own hands and power in their user's hands. So much like the first round where American big tech took over the world, maybe it's prime to happen again as the AI industry continues to scale.

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6. fragme+Yr[view] [source] 2025-01-22 01:30:38
>>Fade_D+Fk
Why would China censoring Tiananmen Square/whatever out of their LLMs be anymore harmful to the training process when the US controlled LLMs also censor certain topics, eg "how do I make meth?" or "how do I make a nuclear bomb?".
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7. throwa+mV[view] [source] 2025-01-22 05:46:09
>>fragme+Yr
Because when a small group of elites with permament term and no elections decides what is allowed and what isn't... and has full control of silencing what's not allowed and any meta discussion about the silencing itself... is different from when an elected government decides it, and then anyone is free to raise a stink on whatever is their version of twitter today without worrying about being disappeared tomorrow
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8. snapca+hS1[view] [source] 2025-01-22 14:19:27
>>throwa+mV
It's not an elected government if you're talking about the US. These policies are also all decided by "elites with permanent term and no elections" you realize right?
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9. throwa+dZ1[view] [source] 2025-01-22 15:02:06
>>snapca+hS1
> It's not an elected government if you're talking about the US

If you don't believe US has elections then straighten up your tinfoil hat:)

Maybe you'll say next the earth is flat, if you think people have nothing better to do but to find ways to lie to you.

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10. snapca+362[view] [source] 2025-01-22 15:42:20
>>throwa+dZ1
I don't feel like this was a good faith interpretation of my comment. What i'm saying is that in the US and China, censorship is decided by unelected officials. In one case it's CPC in another case it's corporate executives
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11. throwa+p14[view] [source] 2025-01-23 06:47:17
>>snapca+362
That makes even less sense as a comparison. Sure Instagram censored anti-Trump posts for a day but in case you didn't notice you are free to discuss that without fearing suppression or jail.
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12. snapca+0L4[view] [source] 2025-01-23 14:11:47
>>throwa+p14
Come on man why are you doing this? I didn't say censorship was the same in america or china you're just trying to find something to disagree with
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13. throwa+Zi6[view] [source] 2025-01-24 03:10:05
>>snapca+0L4
> Why would China censoring Tiananmen Square/whatever out of their LLMs be anymore harmful to the training process when the US controlled LLMs also censor certain topics, eg "how do I make meth?" or "how do I make a nuclear bomb?".

I was explaining why it is more harmful and thought you were arguing it is not harmful?

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14. snapca+D37[view] [source] 2025-01-24 13:54:39
>>throwa+Zi6
I was just making a very simple narrow claim: Censorship in the west and china are both done by unelected people. Note that i didn't say china was good, censorship was equivalent or anything else you're trying to argue. my literal only point was:

Censorship in the west and china are both done by unelected people

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15. throwa+EU8[view] [source] 2025-01-25 07:32:12
>>snapca+D37
OK you are technically correct. We can talk how "appointed by elected people" makes a difference...
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