zlacker

>>anigbr+(OP)
I have no skin in this game.

What I have seen is a confusion (perhaps intentional) between anti-semitism, and protesting Israel’s behavior since the Hamas attack in October.

Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response.

>>Scubab+2n
>Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response.

Okay - then what should be Israel's response? For me what they are doing is the bare minimum with the minimum casualties from the options they have. Hamas is Gaza's government. Hamas has intertwined the civilian and the military infrastructure. Hamas has made sure that the civilian Palestinians will suffer if you target Hamas. And it was Hamas that made sure with organized rape, torture and atrocities on Oct 7 that it can't be overlooked or forgiven.

Here is a good rule of thumb - if you are going to stir shit - stick to just killing. Don't livestream torture and rape, so diplomacy will have something to work with.

>>Reptil+oy
Their response should be to leave the occupied territories, which aren't theirs to begin with, and to recognize a Palestinian state. Israel has held millions of Palestinians under military occupation for more than half a century, and it's way past time that that ended.

>>Diogen+mA
Israel did leave Gaza though. Gaza elected Hamas, and they carried out this attack.

So what should Israel do specifically in Gaza?

>>edanm+BE
Israel left Gaza and then blockaded it, and has carried out major bombing campaigns against Gaza and ground invasions several times.

The conflict is not limited to Gaza. In the West Bank and East Jerusalem, Israel continues to build its illegal settlements, to subject the Palestinian population to a humiliating and brutal military occupation, and to kill Palestinians regularly (several hundred in the West Bank this year).

Until Israel leaves the occupied territories and allows the Palestinians to live as normal people, there will be Palestinian resistance. A few years ago, the people of Gaza tried nonviolent resistance, protesting at the border fence. Israel responded with live ammunition, killing hundreds of protestors.

The Palestinians have tried every way to obtain their freedom: protest, negotiation, armed resistance. Nothing works. Israel is, by far, the stronger party, and it does what it wants to the Palestinians with no consequences.

>>Diogen+VK
There was no reason so far to believe that "Palestinian resistance" will end if Israel leaves the occupied territories. In fact these territories were occupied during an attempt by Arabic population to destroy Israel - which didn't include West Bank back then.

>>oytis+3R
> There was no reason so far to believe that "Palestinian resistance" will end if Israel leaves the occupied territories.

I guarantee that Palestinian resistance won't stop if Israel maintains its occupation.

>>tmnvix+bt1
Yeah, but since it won't stop otherwise either, it's better for Israel to maintain stronger military position, which occupation provides, rather than making unilateral gestures in the faint hope for peace.

>>oytis+b52
What you're saying is that millions of human beings should be subjected to brutal military occupation indefinitely, because their oppressors are afraid for their own safety, should they give up control.

>>Diogen+E92
If you declare war on someone, you should prepare to be occupied if you lose. The fair way out of occupation is a sustainable peace guaranteeing safe existence to Israel. And it requires a lot of good will from Arab population in both Palestine and neighboring countries that has been missing since 1948 (or even earlier if you consider Arab revolts in British Palestine).

>>oytis+5b2
That's quite the attitude to have towards a militarily occupied people: that if they resist, they deserve to be crushed.

>>Diogen+Cw2
That is kind of how occupation works? But that was not my point. My point is that if you wage an aggressive war, you deserve being occupied. Like Germany, Japan, Serbia or Iraq. And the way out of occupation is to convince your neighbours that you are not willing to attack again. Otherwise they will have no other choice than to keep you in a state that you can not attack again. And that is a miserable state indeed.