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[return to "The pro-Israel information war"]
1. jdross+15[view] [source] 2023-12-08 19:20:04
>>anigbr+(OP)
Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602

If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143...

It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1730255552738201854

US views skew pro-israel, and GenZ is closer to 50/50, so if there's something going on online, it's not in favor of Israel.

It's probably relevant that there are 1 billion Muslims to 16 million Jews, and that the largest relevant population of pro-Israeli internationals is India and Indian Hindus, and they are not on TikTok (blocked in India).

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2. A1kmm+gP[view] [source] 2023-12-08 22:57:29
>>jdross+15
I think the fundamental assumption of the analysis that there are two mutually exclusive groups, 'pro-Israel' and 'pro-Palestine' is flawed. It is possible to simultaneously support the interests of Palestinian and Israeli civilians (and support a peaceful Israel within the 1967 boundaries), while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) and Hamas.

I think it is currently about an order of magnitude more civilians deaths have resulted from the actions of Likud (Netanyahu etc..., who control the government and hence the IDF) than from the actions of Hamas. IDF is apparently disrupting civilian aid, destroying infrastructure including hospitals, and causing mass population movements into areas that cannot support them, so the risk of death from starvation and infectious disease at a massive scale as an indirect result is high. The Likud-controlled IDF are also apparently enforcing a 'lock down' of Palestinian civilians in the West Bank while allowing Israeli citizens to seize land by force and further expand the occupied territories.

So the scale of the atrocities seems to be much higher on the Likud side than the Hamas side, covers both the West Bank and Gaza, and it makes sense that the Palestinian victims of those atrocities would receive more support. That doesn't mean that all the people who care about the plight of the Palestinian population are anti-Israel (they are just not posting about it because they are likely prioritising issues).

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3. woodru+PR[view] [source] 2023-12-08 23:11:09
>>A1kmm+gP
I have nothing to add here, other than to thank you for expressing this so cogently.

It’s not always “right” to measure just action in terms of lives saved or lost, but it’s hard for me (and so many other American Jews) to see anything right or just about 10 dead Palestinians for every dead Israeli.

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4. yyyk+tk1[view] [source] 2023-12-09 02:21:37
>>woodru+PR
Take that logic further. Israel's enemies outnumber it by 10x or more and are more than ruthless enough to sacrifice as many as necessary*. There's no way ever that Israel could avoid having the other side having more casualties. The same would apply to every minority.

If your suggested law of war isn't 'majority or ruthless minority, get to do everything they want because they have more causalties', than you need an alternative. The alternative is the current laws of war, which allow for strikes with collateral damage (what Israel says it's doing), but not for terrorist attacks aimed at civilians.

* Suicide bombers, Iranian mullahs sending kids with 'plastic keys to heaven' to dismantle minefields, or current refusal of Hamas to allow civilians to use its tunnels as shelters. We could fill the page with examples really.

** Funny, I don't recall opposition to America's post 9/11 response based on counts. Almost as if the same rules don't apply.

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5. lazyas+Vr1[view] [source] 2023-12-09 03:27:28
>>yyyk+tk1
I do recall opposition to America’s post 9-11 response based on the same arguments, oddly enough.

The current laws of war do not allow, for instance, strikes at medical facilities: Israel’s argument is that they don’t have to follow the laws because Hamas is breaking them.

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6. yyyk+Hs1[view] [source] 2023-12-09 03:37:32
>>lazyas+Vr1
>I do recall opposition to America’s post 9-11 response based on the same arguments

Very much on the margins if any. The overwhelming consensus ignored these considerations.

>The current laws of war do not allow, for instance, strikes at medical facilities.

This is wrong. Medical facilities can be struck if they are used for war.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/08/504815234...

Moreover, this is not what happened in Gaza - there were raids but not dropping bombs from airplanes, the former being much less destructive.

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7. lazyas+qA1[view] [source] 2023-12-09 05:04:03
>>yyyk+Hs1
> Very much on the margins if any. The overwhelming consensus ignored these considerations.

Not true.

I certainly wouldn’t refer to “the US did it” as a cite for “it’s not a war crime”, but that article appears to be saying they attacked a place not thought to be currently active as a civilian medical facility.

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