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[return to "Tell HN: We should start to add “ai.txt” as we do for “robots.txt”"]
1. samwil+H5[view] [source] 2023-05-10 12:56:05
>>Jeanne+(OP)
Using robots.txt as a model for anything doesn't work. All a robots.txt is is a polite request to please follow the rules in it, there is no "legal" agreement to follow those rules, only a moral imperative.

Robots.txt has failed as a system, if it hadn't we wouldn't have captchas or Cloudflare.

In the age of AI we need to better understand where copyright applies to it, and potentially need reform of copyright to align legislation with what the public wants. We need test cases.

The thing I somewhat struggle with is that after 20-30 years of calls for shorter copyright terms, lesser restrictions on content you access publicly, and what you can do with it, we are now in the situation where the arguments are quickly leaning the other way. "We" now want stricter copyright law when it comes to AI, but at the same time shorter copyright duration...

In many ways an ai.txt would be worse than doing nothing as it's a meaningless veneer that would be ignored, but pointed to as the answer.

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2. safety+Wl[view] [source] 2023-05-10 14:11:46
>>samwil+H5
> "We" now want stricter copyright law when it comes to AI, but at the same time shorter copyright duration...

This gross generalization of other people's views on important issues is really offensive.

My view is that the Copyright Act of 1976 had it about right when they established the duration of copyright. My view is that members of Congress were handsomely rewarded by a specific corporation to carve out special exceptions to this law because they wanted larger profits. "We" didn't call the Copyright Term Extension Act of 1998 the "Mickey Mouse Act" for nothing. It's also no coincidence that Disney is now the largest media company in the world.

Reducing copyright term extension has everything to do with restoring competition and creativity to our economy, and reversing corruption that borders on white collar crime. It has nothing to do with AI. Don't recruit me into some bullshit argument that rewrites history and entrenches Disney's ill-gotten monopoly.

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3. soperj+nv[view] [source] 2023-05-10 14:51:55
>>safety+Wl
I think they nailed it with the original 1790 act. 14 years + 14 more is plenty.
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4. csalle+bH[view] [source] 2023-05-10 15:40:25
>>soperj+nv
Same. The very nature of information is that it yearns to be free. Information cannot be "owned." The point of copyright should be to grant temporary monopolies to encourage creation, not to confer ownership.

Thomas Jefferson put it beautifully:

If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other possesses the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. That ideas should freely spread from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density in any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of confinement or exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property.

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5. fsckbo+vN[view] [source] 2023-05-10 16:05:11
>>csalle+bH
but copyright is not for information or ideas, information and ideas cannot be copyrighted; it's for creative expression
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6. renlo+5X[view] [source] 2023-05-10 16:49:00
>>fsckbo+vN
and why should "creative expression" be owned?
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7. majorm+Ch1[view] [source] 2023-05-10 18:17:53
>>renlo+5X
Why should land be owned? None of us created the planet...

But we have selected an economic system that depends on ownership to drive exchange in a market, so... that's why.

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8. renlo+ai1[view] [source] 2023-05-10 18:20:38
>>majorm+Ch1
I'd argue that land is owned because it's a finite resource, and that without property ownership people would be in conflict with one another. "Creative expression" is not finite, in fact every human possesses it, it's also intangible, it's ideas, thoughts, ... , which I personally do not believe should be owned.
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9. wwwest+Ou1[view] [source] 2023-05-10 19:11:22
>>renlo+ai1
> "Creative expression" is not finite

It absolutely is.

Doing it at all requires time & attentive focus, which is a finite resource for anybody mortal, and moreover a resource that's scarce and has to be spent in multiple places.

Doing it well requires significant investment in practice and training, often years of it, maybe even decades in order to develop certain levels of expressive fluency.

As with any issue of scarcity, economics comes in. If you want this activity supported, one good way of doing it is enabling the investment of time. Copyright does this by giving people an economic/legal claim on how copies of their work are distributed.

Paying for copies has the usual market merits -- the economic reward and signals of value are proportional to copies acquired. There are other ways of course, common ones brought up here are patronage and merchandising, but they lose the market merits, and both are basically another way of saying "nobody should have to pay for the value in your work directly," and merchandising is even worse in that it's basically saying "yeah, you'll just need another job to support yourself while you're doing this thing", which is time taken away from investment in the creative endeavor, so you'll get less of the actual endeavor.

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10. musica+SJ2[view] [source] 2023-05-11 03:02:47
>>wwwest+Ou1
I think the concept that PP may be trying to get across is scarcity:

"goods are scarce because there are not enough resources to produce all the goods that people want to consume".(quoted at [1])

Physical books are intrinsically scarce because they require physical resources to make and distribute copies. Libraries are often limited by physical shelf space.

Ebooks are not intrinsically scarce because there are enough resources to enable anyone on the internet to download any one of millions of ebooks at close to zero marginal cost, with minimal physical space requirements per book. Archive.org and Z-Library are examples of this.

Consider also free goods:

"Examples of free goods are ideas and works that are reproducible at zero cost, or almost zero cost. For example, if someone invents a new device, many people could copy this invention, with no danger of this "resource" running out."[2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarcity

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_good

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