zlacker

>>i13e+(OP)
The gaming of SEO has been quietly destroying the utility of search writ large as a mechanism for quite a while.

Over the last year, its become palpable.

Google has such utility in this regard that in some cases, a hallucinating lie-machine offers better answer than an index of what information is available on the internet.

This issue with with Googles failure to respond to the deluge of SEO driven content in their searches. They can do better. They've chosen to not do so.

>>Rosana+K9
I see this sort of comment a lot, and I honestly don't know what it's talking about. What are people expecting out of Google that it's not delivering?

It can only index stuff that's on the Web. Stuff on the Web is, contrary to what is popularly asserted, only a tiny fraction of all human knowledge.

I think people are forgetting how bad search was before Google. Google drove Web directories to extinction. Remember Yahoo!? Back in that era, if I were looking for something as simple as the University of Michigan, I clicked and drilled down through a Yahoo directory. The obvious search query would have been useless. Google changed all that.

I view Google as the yellow pages. It works well for that. Is it an oracle of knowledge? Of course not. How could I possibly expect to find knowledge on a place where there is no reward for making it available? People producing knowledge don't work for free.

I've tried ChatGPT and it's no better. It serves up stuff that is flat-out wrong.

>>massys+7d
> What are people expecting out of Google that it's not delivering?

Not optimize for "most documents indexed" but "highest quality of results". One of them encourages adding spam to their index, the other encourages removing spam from their index.

>>luckyl+Pd
There are giant teams of people at Google whose only job is trying to define things like "spam" and "seo abuse" more precisely in more diverse contexts. There are equally large armies of people outside of it trying to outwit the first group and find more and more elaborate loopholes and workarounds.

HN is constantly pushing this notion that "spam" is some well-defined, solvable problem, so obviously Google wants it. That narrative just doesn't make sense from any angle. The notion that more click bait improves Google's bottom line is absurd

>>gipp+Cf
This discussion is pretty sad and frustrating for me. I think your conclusion (“Google has no motive to encourage spam content that rises to the top using SEO tricks”) is about as convincing as it gets, but it’s completely drowned out by a very vague sense that google is a big company and therefor it’s making search worse on purpose. No amount of well-worded HN posts are gonna sway people, imo…

Luckily HN posters don’t exactly represent a meaningful portion of the population.

>>bbor+vh
Have you looked at Youtube comments recently? It's a mess. There's no organization, half of the replies are censored but are still being counted, so you have plenty of "1 Reply" links but nothing shows up when you toggle. Half of the top level comments are completely useless comments that are only posted to help the creator "beat the algorithm", every successful creator now has a call to action to write a comment.

I see two options: a) Google can't do any better than that, b) Google has a reason to keep it in the current state (I'll put "Google doesn't know because nobody at Google has used Youtube in the last 5 years" and similar options under "a").

a) sounds ridiculous, b) sounds conspiratorial. What are the other options?

And again, I'm not saying they are making search worse on purpose (no "from now on our core mission is to make search suck"). I'm saying they aren't optimizing for SERP quality. They seem to care about index size (maybe it's an internal KPI? would certainly explain their aggressive guessing at additional URLs that you might have on their page but don't link to, don't add in sitemaps etc, and their stubbornness in keeping results from the index even if they've been 301ed or 410ed ages ago (they do get downranked after a while though)), but I assume that they mostly care about paid ad clicks, and if something increases ad clicks while the result quality decreases, they'll do it.