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[return to "Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading"]
1. throwa+2o[view] [source] 2021-11-11 01:54:42
>>lxm+(OP)
I’m sure every generation feels like the next is going to turn the world to hell… but what the hell? I find it absolutely bonkers that gifted classes, math, homework and objective performance assessments are suddenly under fire as instruments perpetuating inequality. Does our education system leave much to be desired? Absolutely! Let’s pay teachers more and improve access to quality education for all students, not cognitively handicap the next generation.
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2. bko+As[view] [source] 2021-11-11 02:44:06
>>throwa+2o
The crazy thing is that the bar is so low in the US.

Where I live, Hoboken, NJ, the high school math and reading proficiency rate are 8% and 44% respectively, while the graduation rate is >95%

What the hell are they doing if they're not even teaching kids math and reading? And why are they graduating them?

Grades aren't meant to be a feel good merit badge. They're supposed to be an accurate reflection of your level of knowledge relative to your peers. If it ceases to be that, then the selection just happens elsewhere. So now high school diploma isn't worth anything because everyone graduates. Hiring a high school graduate doesn't even guarantee you the person can read. Same thing happens in bachelors as schools become less selective and inflate grades.

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3. uejfiw+Dv[view] [source] 2021-11-11 03:07:59
>>bko+As
How on earth do we de-escalate from here? I feel that in the US it is impossible to summon the political willpower to make it HARDER to graduate HS or go to college, even if these things would make society better off.

My personal opinion is that the government should get out of education, just lower our taxes and let the free market handle the rest. Never gonna happen, however.

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4. wyldfi+NB[view] [source] 2021-11-11 04:26:02
>>uejfiw+Dv
Public education is one of those rare positive externalities. I think it would be a mistake to abandon it.

If we wanted to succeed here, we would likely need to invest more money to hire more or superior teachers that could work individually with these students that struggle to meet the requirements. The worst part would be that even with that investment it may not even be enough. Some portion of the students who don't achieve are not interested in excelling, and individual attention may not help much there.

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5. bright+gC[view] [source] 2021-11-11 04:33:52
>>wyldfi+NB
Public education is a net good but the implementation model of that education is what’s such a problem right now. There’s a reason so many more kids are home schooled now than ever before and it’s a complete lack of confidence in public schools. Private school waiting lists are a mile long.
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6. JPKab+6K[view] [source] 2021-11-11 06:05:05
>>bright+gC
I'm a parent of two kids and I couldn't agree more.

I went to mostly black and poor public schools my entire childhood. Back then there were a few teachers who clearly didn't care and were never held accountable. Most of the teachers were pretty good though. It's increasingly shifted towards the opposite.

I was blown away by how pathetically run my children's public schools are here in Colorado so I put them both in private school. They get less than half the money per student that the public school system I live in gets, and are vastly more efficient. The operations, the instructors, it's all just run correctly.

When my daughter was still in a public elementary school I walked in one day to try to get her iPad fixed when they were doing full remote learning due to the pandemic. There was a large meeting taking place amongst all the staff. None of them had bothered to return my calls which is why I had to go in person. They looked like they were having a party because I didn't see any work getting done.

At the end of the day it's a government school. Name a single government agency that is efficient with their money. Name a government agency that's good at hiring, or keeping good talent.

We should just do a voucher system and let the private sector deal with this. As a taxpayer I'm deeply resentful of having my money get taken from me and given to unionized teachers who refused to work for a full year and then had the nerve to take summer vacation as if it had been a normal year. These were the same folks who were put at the front of the line for vaccinations independent of their age groups. And then they proceeded to act like they were still in danger and couldn't open schools.

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7. bruceb+901[view] [source] 2021-11-11 08:56:36
>>JPKab+6K
yes how dare they take vacation as already negotiated in their contract. Darn those teacher hanging at their mansions Also anyone who works at google should not be allowed to take vacation if they worked from home. Sure that would go over well.

The vaccine wasn’t really available till a few months into 2021, and I can understand the hesitation on some to be the first to take a new vaccine.

Yes private schools might run better. Shockingly richer and generally two parent families are going to have children that been primed to respect learning and have less trauma so much easier to deal with. Public schools teachers don’t have this luxury.

There certainly could be improvements to public school, some of the curriculum is dumb, but again they have to serve all customers, private schools don’t.

I don’t begrudge public school teachers their vacation.

I also realize this past year+ has been extremely stressful on parents, especially those who can’t work from home

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8. dorcha+zh1[view] [source] 2021-11-11 12:00:21
>>bruceb+901
> Yes private schools might run better. Shockingly richer and generally two parent families are going to have children that been primed to respect learning and have less trauma so much easier to deal with. Public schools teachers don’t have this luxury.

Exactly. OP acts as if it's such a great surprise they're run better. Obviously they would be, because they can pick and choose who they take and usually only get those kids who's families are well off enough to afford it; those kids already all have huge advantages when it comes to learning. It's exactly why the voucher system would do no good either -- it'd just make the public school worse as the private schools take those kids who are already borderline on affording it.

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9. bright+rA1[view] [source] 2021-11-11 14:32:34
>>dorcha+zh1
They only get kids whose families are well off enough to afford it, specifically because only people with a lot of money have a choice.

You can either afford to:

1. Pay out of pocket for private school

2. Afford to have 1 parent be responsible for participation in some type of home school education (group or otherwise)

3. Relocate your house to somewhere zoned for a “good school”

If you can’t afford any of those things, you don’t have a choice. That’s why people want vouchers.

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10. dorcha+q02[view] [source] 2021-11-11 16:28:07
>>bright+rA1
The thing is, it only expands the choice to those who are borderline on that group already. It doesn't magically make the choice be available to everyone. For instance, say you're a single parent household and you have to rely on buses. You don't really have 'choice' even within a voucher system. All it does it allow those who can transport their kids to take them elsewhere, making the school that's left behind worse again.

So basically it goes from those 'with a lot of money hav[ing] a choice' to 'those with some money having a choice'. It doesn't fix the underlying problems at all, and would actually make them worse for those who are left behind.

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11. JPKab+K12[view] [source] 2021-11-11 16:33:36
>>dorcha+q02
Let me guess:

You don't have kids in school, do you? It amazes me how many people with absolutely no skin in the game comment on this stuff.

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12. dorcha+u42[view] [source] 2021-11-11 16:46:54
>>JPKab+K12
I was literally a teacher in a poor school district. I am looking at it from a different perspective, but that doesn't mean my opinion is inherently not valuable. Yes, it might out work great for those kids who can take advantage. But all those who can't are left behind. And actually be left even more behind, especially as all the extra money that would be going to their school flows out. But, hey, they're not your kids right?
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13. JPKab+tn3[view] [source] 2021-11-12 00:38:36
>>dorcha+u42
You mistake my disagreement with HOW to take care of those kids with whether or not I care about them, or want to help them. There are other solutions.

I was one of those kids. My mother was a drug addict, I spent a large portion of my childhood in a trailer park. There was nothing a teacher could do without me having a structured home life. She would frequently interrupt me when I tried to do my homework, and then yell at me 2 hours later for not having it done. She undermined my teachers at every turn, and when they called to complain about my behavior, she took my side instead of theirs. Once I was provided this structured home life (courtesy of the courts finally giving my father custody of me and my siblings and getting us away from our psycho mother) suddenly I was able to focus on school. If I disrespected a teacher, one phone call to my dad, and I was faced with a terrifying man who made my life hell. This was a powerful incentive to behave for the teachers, and do my homework as well. Bad behavior at school resulted in consequences for me at home.

The current public school system isn't capable of fixing this problem. You are just throwing good money after bad, and dragging the kids who would do well in a better school down with the kids whose homes make it impossible for school to do any good.

Geoffrey Canada's Harlem Children's Zone is an example of a model that works. He keeps the kids at school for very long hours, and minimizes the time they are at home.

Public schools were not designed or intended to replace the role of functioning families. Trying to force them into that role is a bad idea, and very ineffective and wasteful. Society has changed, an increasingly large percentage of kids across all ethnic groups (except for Asian Americans) are living in single parent homes. You were a teacher, so I think you are aware of. the fact that they are going back to homes where they are entertained by screens all night. The parents frequently throw their hands in the air, and ask "how can I keep him off video games?" seemingly unaware of the fact that they can take the controllers/phone/laptop whatever away and god forbid take the TV out of the kid's room. The point is that teachers can't fix this.

Teacher's unions and public school districts are incentivized to pretend they are capable of addressing the problem, provided they get more money. That's what institutions and organizations do, after all. They always want to expand their scope, get more personnel, do more, and get paid for it. It's dumb in this case.

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14. dorcha+no4[view] [source] 2021-11-12 13:16:25
>>JPKab+tn3
I do want to say I completely agree with most of what you have said. Current schools are not capable of handling it. But I don't think there's any possible model of schools that can handle it, except, as you said, keeping kids out of their homes when they're in these situations. That's why I don't think any model of vouchers will work, and will just make things worse for the kids whose parents can't afford or don't want to make things better for them.

Basically, to fix this problem, we need to fix the societal issues in the country, not the schools. That's something I entirely agree with. My disagreement is that I think switching to a voucher system and things like that only makes matters worse for those who can't take advantage of just moving for whatever reason.

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