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[return to "The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins"]
1. bartar+T5[view] [source] 2021-06-04 00:04:55
>>codech+(OP)
This is the most shocking article I have ever read in my life. I'd ask everyone to please read it because it is incredible.

One thing I did not realize is that US researchers who conducted gain of function research tried to downplay and discredit the possibility of the virus originating from the wuhan lab. There was an anti-lab theory Lancet statement signed by scientists, and "Daszak had not only signed but organized the influential Lancet statement, with the intention of concealing his role and creating the impression of scientific unanimity."

Plus there's all the stuff about the miners shoveling bat poop for weeks and then dying of coronaviruses, and the Wuhan institute collecting and doing gain of function research on these similar-to-SARS samples. And then several of the lab's gain of function researchers became ill in late 2019. And there's the weird renaming of samples to hide the unmatched closeness of the mine samples and covid. This is just the absolute surface of the article. There's too much to list here

Edit: here's another amazement for the list: "Shi Zhengli herself had publicly acknowledged that, until the pandemic, all of her team’s coronavirus research — some involving live SARS-like viruses — had been conducted in less secure BSL-3 and even BSL-2 laboratories." And the article says "BSL-2 [is] roughly as secure as an American dentist’s office."

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2. tpfour+t8[view] [source] 2021-06-04 00:30:25
>>bartar+T5
The calculation is simple and could have been made in early 2020. What's the joint probability of occurrence given everything you know about the origins of SARS-CoV-2?

There is _very_ high probability that this is just a human error.

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3. peter4+I8[view] [source] 2021-06-04 00:32:53
>>tpfour+t8
Was every other emerging virus also created in a lab? SARS? MERS? Influenza? Polio?

The highest probability is this virus originated like every other virus in history.

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4. tpfour+W9[view] [source] 2021-06-04 00:44:34
>>peter4+I8
You're taking this the wrong way. You have to update your priors and calculate a joint probability knowing everything we know about the origins of this particular virus.
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5. PaulDa+Ob[view] [source] 2021-06-04 01:05:11
>>tpfour+W9
Except that we still don't actually know very much about the origins of this virus.
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6. tpfour+ge[view] [source] 2021-06-04 01:28:33
>>PaulDa+Ob
We know enough to calculate a joint probability. Just update your estimate with new information. This should be pretty non-controversial. Everybody does this every day especially in the face of uncertainty.
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7. tremon+dV[view] [source] 2021-06-04 10:02:14
>>tpfour+ge
Perhaps you should do the work yourself, rather than requiring others to do it for you?
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8. tpfour+lg1[view] [source] 2021-06-04 13:37:00
>>tremon+dV
Are you expecting a number? The joint probability of low-probability events is itself very low.

I'm not saying you should calculate it like P(10 000 tails coin flip) * P(1 000 000 tails coin flip). That can be done numerically. I'm saying that based on everything I've read, the highest probability hypothesis according to my own evaluation is the unintentional lab leak. To me, that's as uncontroversial as it gets. Human error happens _all the time_. Arguing against the lab leak, knowing what we know about China's refusal to allow an actual thorough scientific investigation into it, seems quite a bit more controversial to me.

Labs burn down, medical errors happen, bridges collapse, whatever. That's just reality.

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