zlacker

[return to "Scientists who say the lab-leak hypothesis for SARS-CoV-2 shouldn't be ruled out"]
1. endisn+Tl[view] [source] 2021-04-09 15:32:06
>>todd8+(OP)
Every time this comes I ask - "so what?"

So again, I ask - even if it's true, so what? It's impossible to conclusively prove, and even if proven what exactly is proven? That an accident occurred? OK, so what?

The article attempts to answer this:

> The vitriol also obscures a broader imperative, Relman says, which is that uncovering the virus’s origins is crucial to stopping the next pandemic. Threats from both lab accidents and natural spillovers are growing simultaneously as humans move steadily into wild places and new biosafety labs grow in number around the world. “This is why the origins question is so important,” Relman says.

However the reality is from the perspective of the USA it doesn't even matter. Even if China was malicious and deliberately sent it off to us, it could've been easily stopped but we didn't do it. Unless we're going to go to war over this it seems like a pointless exercise as conclusive evidence will never emerge as it requires cooperation from China.

We're worrying about whether it was created from labs in China, meanwhile we couldn't even prevent a massive superspreader event in Boston via the Biogen conference, filled with people who already has an awareness of the virus to begin with.

Even now as I type this cases of the variant are increasing and the amount of people taking the vaccine is decreasing and silly accidents like the J&J fiasco are occurring. Not to say that we can't explore both things simultaneously, but it's pretty obvious that the return on investment will differ - one will do... what exactly? And another will prevent more cases.

◧◩
2. engine+Io[view] [source] 2021-04-09 15:42:42
>>endisn+Tl
The conflict over the investigation is justifiable. It's necessary to understand how the virus got started. If it's lab-grown we will want to be very careful to scrutinize each other's labs. If it's natural we will want to be very careful to scrutinize wild game. The implications of any scenario are broad and complex, but clearly we don't want a repeat of 2020 if we can avoid it.

Another point: just because there's some uncomfortable conflict over the investigation doesn't mean we should abandon and investigation, in fact it probably means we should investigate more vigorously.

◧◩◪
3. endisn+lp[view] [source] 2021-04-09 15:44:55
>>engine+Io
Thank you for your comment, but your comment is precisely the kind of comment I disagree with.

What difference does it make? Let's say that it's both lab-grown and wild game. OK, so that means we should scrutinize both. OK, then. Now what?

No amount of scrutiny can prevent an accident from occurring. It's not as if this pandemic happens every year. We're talking about a once in a century event. Not to mention some countries prevented the virus from spreading within their own countries very effectively, and others, well, did not.

◧◩◪◨
4. engine+br[view] [source] 2021-04-09 15:52:35
>>endisn+lp
Here's an example: one of your local health department's jobs is to scrutinize private businesses sanitation practices so you don't get sick from contaminated food. Ditto the water systems, so you don't get sick from contaminated water. The idea is to prevent complacency.

Prior to that, people did get sick, and public investigations were mounted to pinpoint the problem. Nobody wanted to admit to themselves that they were to blame, that they had hurt or killed someone, but the society benefited from the momentary discomfort and those hard truths.

◧◩◪◨⬒
5. endisn+Qr[view] [source] 2021-04-09 15:55:18
>>engine+br
I don't think your example is relevant nor is it a good analogy.

The situation is more like you're McDonalds and everyone at your store and your competitors stores are getting food poisoning.

Instead of properly understanding why contaminated food is arriving at your store and stopping the poisoning within your store, you're researching whether or not the contaminated food originated at Burger King.

It's not bad to research whether or not the contaminated food originated at Burger King, but regardless knowing that isn't going to stop the food poisoning from spreading within your store.

I like this analogy because there are already food safety laws just like how there are safety standards for working within a lab. Regardless, accidents happen, and people get poisoned. Kind of like the Chipotle outbreaks.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓
6. engine+Xs[view] [source] 2021-04-09 16:01:16
>>endisn+Qr
Yes! Exactly like the Chipotle outbreaks!

If you buy tacos from Chipotle and they sell you a tainted taco on accident. You get sick. Hopefully you survive. In any case you will want Chipotle to do a thorough investigation to prevent it from happening again.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔
7. engine+Nt[view] [source] 2021-04-09 16:05:33
>>engine+Xs
Good, I'm glad we agree that investigation matters :)
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯
8. endisn+8u[view] [source] 2021-04-09 16:07:06
>>engine+Nt
You've completely misunderstood my point. My point is that we're McDonalds - not Chipotle. Should McDonalds be investigating Chipotle's problems or their own? It's really that simple...

If you believe McDonalds in this analogy should be investigating the origins of Chipotle's problems as opposed to resolving their ongoing issue then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯▣
9. neolog+my1[view] [source] 2021-04-09 21:28:59
>>endisn+8u
American Airlines can't reduce its risk by reading Delta's FAA incident reports?
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯▣▦
10. endisn+KC1[view] [source] 2021-04-09 21:57:26
>>neolog+my1
That situation isn't analogous, but American Airlines would reduce its risk more by reading its own incident reports compared to Delta's, yes. In general focusing on one's own failings is superior to focusing on another's.

Are you serious?

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯▣▦▧
11. neolog+wN1[view] [source] 2021-04-09 23:18:32
>>endisn+KC1
> reduce its risk more by reading its own

Ok but they can do both, right? I mean, I can improve my performance by looking at my own performance, but also watching others.

Moreover, the US can exert a lot of pressure on other countries to meet certain standards and reduce risk. Knowing what went wrong will help determine standards.

It's not like lab-leak-causes-disease only happens once. This happens all the time, just like aircraft incidents. If incidents weren't investigated and tracked, planes would be riskier than they are.

[go to top]