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1. suppor+Nc1[view] [source] 2020-06-15 13:46:30
>>dtagam+(OP)
When one 737 Max crashed, some pointed the finger at the pilots.

When a second one crashed, the focus quickly shifted.

It is a common attitude in aviation that even pilot error is really a systems fault. Perhaps opposing buttons are too close together, or some control requires attention to be diverted at the wrong time, or pilots are allowed to fly too many hours without adequate rest, or plenty of other things that could contribute to predictable human failure.

It seems obvious that we can predict human failure in current policing. If two incidents with a 737 lead to an indefinite grounding, what's the right number for this situation?

In the case of the airplane, grounding does not create a public safety issue. And there are, of course, many alternatives that can keep the overall system up and running in the meantime. The solution to police brutality requires much more thought.

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2. ha4fsd+Op1[view] [source] 2020-06-15 15:06:17
>>suppor+Nc1
I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Your comparison would be more accurate if all humans were law abiding citizens. I don't think you could put blame on pilots if airplanes could sabotage flights at will.

Of course if all humans are law abiding citizens there would be no issue to begin with. I think every society with lower crime has significantly smaller police brutality issue with some rare exceptions like Hong Kong.

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3. freefl+1y1[view] [source] 2020-06-15 15:39:46
>>ha4fsd+Op1
> I think every society with lower crime has significantly smaller police brutality

Crime-rates do not correlate with police brutality and mass incarceration.

Canada locks up way fewer people, has way less harsh sentencing than the US, yet Canadian crime rates are not that different from those of the US [0].

It's also really weird to evoke HK in this discussion when the current police response in the US is way worse than anything reported out of HK. Particularly in the context that for the longest time the HK police actually had a rather splendid international reputation [1].

While US police had a "Dirty Harry" like reputation for several decades now, something that's reached its current peak with the whole "blueline" mentality and the glorification of comic vigilantes like the Punisher as a symbol for law enforcement.

As such a whole lot of this is rooted very deeply in policing and incarceration culture and not some countries being inherently "more criminal" than others.

[0] https://youtu.be/wtV5ev6813I

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/world/asia/24iht-hkpolice...

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4. vlads_+nA1[view] [source] 2020-06-15 15:50:54
>>freefl+1y1
You claim that law enforcement culture differs in the countries which you are comparing and that is indeed true. But is the crime culture the same? Or is that not a factor worth considering?
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5. freefl+8L1[view] [source] 2020-06-15 16:42:36
>>vlads_+nA1
Police are institutions with standardization, their culture isn't some random construct, it's something that's actively decided on, that's codified in legislation and training.

Criminal culture is not, it's something that emerges way more naturally, usually as a direct response to the culture set by police and punishments established by law.

If, for example, the punishment for certain crimes is so high by default that the criminal would rather die than get a sentence that would equal death, then you have taken any and all motivation from that criminal to look for a more reasonable way out, instead preferring to "go out in a blaze of glory" on their own terms.

That's why this whole "tough on crime" approach mostly leads to an escalation on both ends: Cops treat criminals more harshly, criminals respond by acting more harshly themselves because acting more reasonable wouldn't gain them anything anyway so they might as well completely live out their destructive urges.

This is further reinforced through a prison system that's not aimed at rehabilitation, but generally seen as a form of "revenge", as "punishment" and as such victimizes its inmates, which leads to even more resentment, while leaving them utterly unprepared, and with quite a grudge, when they get released back into society.

Which leads to the outcome that it usually won't take long until they get into trouble again [0] because their time in prison taught them nothing except "might makes right" and how sadistic cruelty is a valid way of interaction with other people when you are the one in a position of power.

[0] https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2019/may/3/long-term-re...

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