zlacker

>>obilgi+(OP)
Seattle police vacated the east precinct, fully expecting protesters to burn it down. Instead, the protesters set up an open zone, compiled a set of demands, and from all accounts set up something cool and unique.

Here's hoping it sustains itself for a while.

>>Pfhrea+B5
No, not even remotely "by all accounts". There are plenty of accounts that isn't "cool and unique" but is just another place ruled by violent thugs: https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/h077uv/raz_simone_...

I'm not passing judgment yet since the days are young and the political bias on the ground is thick in both directions. But it is definitely not "by all accounts".

But my personal bias on the table is that yeah, trading police that were imperfectly constrained by the system for new police utterly and entirely unconstrained by the system is probably not going to go well. The real "fun" will start when Raz's faction pisses off enough people to form a violent counterfaction and you get a gang war, so give it a bit. It takes time for these things to develop. Let the honeymoon wear off and have this place showing a functioning system for, oh, say, at least a month before declaring victory. Not that you declared victory, I'm just saying, I recommend against getting too invested in this.

It's not as if "a place that has no police" is some shocking new experiment that has never been run before; you've got plenty of places you can look out in the world to see what happens next. It's not a difficult-to-predict progression.

>>jerf+p6
A handful of incidents like these are being distorted and blown up by media that treats cop lies uncritically. In comparison, just a few nights ago, cops were beating people and filling the area with tear gas (banned under geneva convention) and it was seeping into residential homes so badly that even nextdoor is anti-police in that area now.

>>0x262d+Qz1
More relevantly, they were specifically ordered by their city council not to use tear gas and then went ahead and did it anyways, all over the city.

I'd like to think, regardless of anyone's politics, we could all agree that the elected government should have authority over the police.

>>free_r+kE1
Can you clarify the timeline? AFAIK the police used tear-gas, then they were ordered to stop by the mayor, then they stopped and switched to other means like mace. Do you know differently?

>>DenisM+0I1
The Mayor ordered them to stop using one specific type of tear gas -- CS gas -- last Friday. For one day, the police used alternatives including mace, pepper balls, steel cored rubber bullets, flashbangs, and smoke with irritating agents.

However, by Sunday (or maybe early, early Monday morning), the police were using CS gas again at the order of the police chief, Carmen Best.

>>Pfhrea+ju3
>However, by Sunday (or maybe early, early Monday morning), the police were using CS gas again at the order of the police chief, Carmen Best.

I did not know that. Do you have a reference to back this up?

>>DenisM+e44
Chief Best said so herself at the June 11 press conference[1].

18:22: Reporter: "So, Chief Best, you stood here on Friday and you said it was going to be your decision and your decision alone to use tear gas. Tear gas was deployed on Sunday. You released a video today to say that it was not your decision to close the East Precinct. So who is making tactical decisions right now, for the Seattle Police Department?"

18:51: Best: "So for the tear gas, it was my decision. ... We suspended the use for 30 days unless it was a 'life safety situation.' And that was the exemption. ... The officers felt like it was a 'life safety situation' ... and I concurred."

19:27: Best: "I own that decision. I made that decision."

Here's a press conference transcript from June 7 where they claimed they would stop using CS gas[2].

Here's a secondary source reporting on the June 11 press conference[3].

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rE4VMjClqI

[2]: https://durkan.seattle.gov/2020/06/transcript-mayor-durkans-...

[3]: https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2020/06/11/43893335/durkan-...

>>loeg+VD4
Thank you.