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[return to "Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report"]
1. rayine+c6[view] [source] 2020-06-11 03:31:04
>>evo_9+(OP)
USA Today has the best coverage of this I’ve seen. The NYT coverage of this is awful: https://www.nytimes.com/article/breonna-taylor-police.html

A key fact is that the police shot Taylor after her boyfriend shot at the police, thinking they were intruders. While he was fully entitled to do that, the NYT doesn’t believe in gun rights so that’s a messy fact. To make the victim seem more sympathetic, the narrative under the heading “What Happened in Louisville?” doesn’t mention Taylor‘s boyfriend shooting first. Instead, you need to go down several paragraphs to learn that fact. Which leaves the whole article deeply confused: at first you think police just started shooting for no reason, and then later you learn they shot because they were fired upon. Which of course leaves the reader with little understanding of what police actually did wrong. Were they not supposed to shoot back when Taylor’s boyfriend shot at them? Is that the problem?

Obviously nobody expects the police not to shoot back when fired upon. What the police did wrong, instead, is failing to respect black peoples’ second and fourth amendment rights. This happened in Kentucky, where if you barge into someone’s house in the middle of the night you can expect to get shot. Police barging into people’s homes in the middle of the night unannounced is fundamentally incompatible with what the Constitution and Kentucky law gives homeowners the right to do: shoot at intruders in their home. And as such the practice of serving these no-knock warrants is an infringement of that right. It leads to tragic consequences under predictable circumstances where homeowners are just exercising their rights. And of course, it’s doubtful that officers display the same callousness to the possibility of armed homeowners when it comes to policing white neighborhoods. It’s another one in a long pattern of cases where black people are murdered for daring to exercise their second amendment rights.

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2. newacc+Za[view] [source] 2020-06-11 04:40:30
>>rayine+c6
> Were they not supposed to shoot back when Taylor’s boyfriend shot at them?

How about: they should be held responsible for the preventable death of this woman in a situation they directly and deliberately created? Is that not the problem?

I don't think anyone is demanding a first degree murder conviction here. They didn't walk in with the intent to kill her. But they sure as shit did kill her, and it's all their fault that it happened. Sounds like open and shut manslaughter to me.

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3. JamesB+nh[view] [source] 2020-06-11 06:07:05
>>newacc+Za
Is the bad guy a couple of cops who we hold to the impossible standard of not returning fire? Or are no-knock warrants the bad guy which routinely cause deaths for the sole purpose of keeping some drugs from being flushed down the toilet?

Because one of these is very easy to fix and would 100% mean Taylor would still be alive. The other would be super difficult to fix and who knows if it would have saved her life.

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4. arrrg+1u[view] [source] 2020-06-11 08:26:26
>>JamesB+nh
Is "not returning fire" really an impossible standard to you?

How about: If you do something that could be met with justified self defense and you encounter that self defense your first instinct as police should be to retreat and clarify the situation?

Why is it reasonable to have the first instinct to shoot back?

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5. JamesB+7Q1[view] [source] 2020-06-11 18:10:07
>>arrrg+1u
Do you think that a blanket policy that all officers retreat when fired upon without returning fire wouldn't be exploitable by criminals?
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6. newacc+fI2[view] [source] 2020-06-12 01:19:01
>>JamesB+7Q1
Do you think trading innocent people's lives to prevent criminal exploits is an acceptable strategy?

I mean, there weren't any criminals here at all, but let's pretend they were dealing out of the apartment, as the reporting has suggested was the impetus. How many escaped drug dealers are worth one Breonna Taylor?

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7. JamesB+mO2[view] [source] 2020-06-12 02:29:55
>>newacc+fI2
At some ratio yes. Otherwise we shouldn't enforce any laws, and I don't think a state without any laws enforced is a viable one.

How many escaped drug dealers are worth one Breonna Taylor, depends completely on how violet the drug dealer is. Non-violent drug dealers, there isn't a number. But as the drug dealer gets more violent it requires fewer.

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8. newacc+jO3[view] [source] 2020-06-12 13:52:23
>>JamesB+mO2
> depends completely on how violet the drug dealer is

Exactly. But you're still evading by hiding behind a TV Crime Drama trope. How many dealers are "violent"? Have you researched that? While there is violence in the drug trade, as there pretty much has to be in any black market, there is almost none at the level of individual sales. Needless to say it's not a good business model to go around killing people in front of your customers.

I mean, the evidence in question (that got this woman killed!) is that a known dealer apparently walked out of the apartment. With a FedEx box. Do we really want to be shooting people for carrying boxes?

The idea of street dealers being dangerous is largely a fiction invented by society. And we're killing innocent people to perpetuate it.

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9. JamesB+kR3[view] [source] 2020-06-12 14:14:22
>>newacc+jO3
Back of the envelope calculation

I would imagine dealers are 0.1-1% of the population (say .3%) and the FBI says roughly 13% of homicides are gang related which is probably a rough proxy for the number of drug dealer related homicides.

This would put dealers as having a homicide rate approximately 40x the base rate. This seems right to me.

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