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[return to "De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer"]
1. beloch+uc[view] [source] 2020-06-02 02:05:52
>>oftenw+(OP)
We should expect police to us less use violence and improve their crowd management and deescalation skills. The increasing militarization of police is a trend that must be reversed. However, we should not neglect the other side of the equation either. This article is, in large part, about just that.

The article points out that many protests in the U.S. went smoothly through the practice of police and protest organizers meeting and jointly managing protests, but that this practice fell into disuse after the 1999 Seattle WTO meeting in which protesters violated the negotiated terms and police responded with violence.

While some recent (and ongoing) protests have turned violent, many didn't. In the coming months we'll have time to do a postmortem. I strongly suspect spontaneous protests without organization will be found to have the most potential for violence, while those with organizers committed to self-policing and, ideally, cooperating with police will be found to have fared much better.

Individual people may be intelligent and responsible, but crowds have their own rules of behaviour and need to be managed. Protests are more dangerous when unplanned or when their organizers give no thought to self-policing.

There will always be organizers who want violence because it reliably brings press coverage and attention to their protests, but social media is also creating new problems. Coordinating a large number of people to show up at the same time and place used to take considerable planning and effort. When you have to work hard just to get the even to happen, why wouldn't you plan how it will unfold as well? Now a couple of tweets or posts on the right reddit subs will suffice. How can police meet with the organizer of a protest when it's really just some dude who had a lot of social media followers and might not even bother showing up himself?

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2. bjourn+dg[view] [source] 2020-06-02 02:39:19
>>beloch+uc
I've been on a few demos that turned violent. Among them the famous one when George Bush decided to pay a visit. In all cases, the organizers wanted to cooperate with the police. They knew who were in the "autonomous bloc" (troublemakers) and would have gladly helped the police zone in on them. In all cases the police didn't care and charged peaceful and violent demonstrators alike.

I find it very odd that the police still cannot after all these years and with all development in surveillance tech distinguish between peaceful demonstrators and rioters. One could almost believe that they have no interest in making that distinction.

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3. idealb+4k[view] [source] 2020-06-02 03:11:36
>>bjourn+dg
Insightful reply. I marched yesterday and police fired rubber bullets into a peaceful crowd because we were blocking a non-essential intersection. On a Sunday.

We refused to leave and fortunately they left and let us have a peaceful march.

There doesn’t seem to be an interest in separating out the extreme minority that protest violently. There had been zero violence or destruction that day. A very well-behaved crowd exercising peaceful civil disobedience met by violence from police. In 2020.

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4. baybal+pY[view] [source] 2020-06-02 10:20:15
>>idealb+4k
Not insightful at all.

> after all these years and with all development in surveillance tech distinguish between peaceful demonstrators and rioters. One could almost believe that they have no interest in making that distinction.

The thing is that they can. That's a very deliberate tactic, down to planting of provocators.

If you been watching what's going on around the world, the allegations of that, including provocator planting, followed pretty much every major demonstration event.

It's naive, if not silly, to use that "hey, he started it first!" argument at the time when the fact of confrontation happening is already obvious.

The talk now should not be who started the violence, but how to end it, a peace treaty to say.

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5. kelvin+Ij1[view] [source] 2020-06-02 13:33:57
>>baybal+pY
Exactly.

There exists an asymmetry in the dynamics of protesters vs police during a protest. Very simple:

Anyone can be 'planted' in a group of protesters to start stirring up trouble (agent-provocateur). Then the police have 'justification' to use whatever amount of force they think is required.

On the other hand, it's practically impossible for a regular citizen to be embedded into a riot police response unit.

Add to that the police have practically no real oversight and investigate themselves (assuming internal affairs counts as police).

One side can't fail (except morally), while the other side always will end up with the shorter end of the stick.

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6. mc32+ay1[view] [source] 2020-06-02 14:58:30
>>kelvin+Ij1
People also can counter plant and plant someone to feign being a first level plant to be able to point out that the violence was instigated by a plant. Both sides can and do do that.
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