zlacker

[parent] [thread] 28 comments
1. flatli+(OP)[view] [source] 2025-12-06 19:03:39
I have done a rigorous job of self diagnosis. I am autistic. I’ve also had the privilege of being able to pursue meditation, therapy, and other self development practices: I’m not as severely autistic as I was as a young man. I also have childhood trauma that I know contributes to many of my autistic presentations — see the last section on comorbidity. I also have some distinct ADHD symptoms but have never pursued that path because my hyperfocus tends to win out often enough that it’s not a hindrance to productivity. But it still causes problems elsewhere in my life.

For some people these diagnoses will be a very good fit with clear predictive outcomes. But many of us have a grab-bag of traits from several categories and still mostly get along in life, maybe with some assistance particular to one of these diagnosis but no more help overall than anyone else needs otherwise.

The diagnostic models suck. They are too broad here, too narrow there, misunderstood by professionals. I had a psychiatrist (mis)diagnose me as bipolar based on a 45 minute appointment when I was in some sort of crisis in my early 30s and that ended up haunting me years later when applying for a job with a security clearance. I didn’t even know about it at the time. This was one of the top rated doctors in a major metro area. What a sham.

The field is a mess. It has a terrible history of horrific abuse. Some autistic children still receive involuntary-to-them ECT. I think we should be supportive of research into these topics while also being critical of the very obvious problems with them.

replies(4): >>cwillu+h1 >>iambat+32 >>nelox+ec >>ok_dad+Pf
2. cwillu+h1[view] [source] 2025-12-06 19:13:55
>>flatli+(OP)
> Some autistic children still receive involuntary-to-them ECT.

Adults too; ask me how I know.

replies(1): >>skrebb+7a
3. iambat+32[view] [source] 2025-12-06 19:19:25
>>flatli+(OP)
It’s never occurred to me that someone could become more or less autistic…could you say more about what that has been like for you?
replies(3): >>cromul+53 >>Aloha+ib >>swatco+lc
◧◩
4. cromul+53[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 19:26:25
>>iambat+32
Not the OP, but after a couple of decades of people pointedly talking about eye contact, small talk, and body language, you learn “coping mechanisms” to deal with neurotypicals and make them more comfortable.

Did your sporting team have success on the weekend? Wonderful, direct eye contact, smile, mirror. Ok, now, to business:

replies(5): >>klipt+u3 >>iambat+84 >>2ICofa+d5 >>riboso+a7 >>alexfo+6k
◧◩◪
5. klipt+u3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 19:29:18
>>cromul+53
If you teach this to children while their brains are young and have high plasticity, they might "grow out" of many autistic symptoms entirely?
replies(3): >>empres+R4 >>soulof+S5 >>vjvjvj+L8
◧◩◪
6. iambat+84[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 19:36:19
>>cromul+53
That’s what I’m curious to hear from you and OP…does that make the autistic person less autistic? Or is it a mask?

I—-as a non-autistic person—-have lots of default tendencies which were socially discouraged as a child and which are now no longer part of my self concept. I’m not “repressing” a desire to be awkward, I’ve simply learned to be less awkward.

But my understanding of autism, which is I think backed by the article itself, is that autism exists as a fundamental cognitive process and tends to be pretty stable.

Btw the reason I ask is to learn…as a software dev and manager, several of the people I interact with could probably be diagnosed autistic and I’m always curious to try to understand what that’s like better.

replies(2): >>cromul+o5 >>cj+Sb
◧◩◪◨
7. empres+R4[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 19:42:57
>>klipt+u3
You don't grow out of it as much as learn to manage it, this requires that you develop some form of executive function though. In my case I was forcefully required to be responsible for my younger brother (when I was 7) and so learned out of necessity -- but this led to a lifetime of resentment and so I don't recommend it as a solution.
replies(1): >>soulof+l6
◧◩◪
8. 2ICofa+d5[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 19:46:01
>>cromul+53
The term I've heard is masking.
◧◩◪◨
9. cromul+o5[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 19:47:39
>>iambat+84
I think you can mask to appear less autistic, yes.

I think autistic people would have less eye corner wrinkles, because they don’t smile automatically when others smile. A study would be interesting.

◧◩◪◨
10. soulof+S5[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 19:51:19
>>klipt+u3
I don't know the neurological mechanisms behind autism, but I know that ADHD is, briefly, defined by a reduction of dopamine receptors across your brain.

The brain is neuroplastic, especially when young, but I doubt you can just influence the growth of significantly more dopamine receptors out of pure willpower and habit-forming; especially given that ADHD disrupts those two facilities.

This is in part why dopaminergic drugs such as Adderall work so well, and why dopamine/reward-center disruption due to childhood trauma can have such a negative impact on one's ADHD symptoms.

Again, I don't know how much this applies back to autism, but it has definitely been a bane of my existence constantly explaining to people why I can't just meditate, habit-form or diet or exercise away my symptoms.

These things help, as does directed research and experimentation with what does and doesn't work for me, and because of my ADHD these things are integral to my ability to function as an adult in this insanely complex and stressful world. And it's definitely made a difference in how I manage my symptoms, especially when I look at how my siblings don't manage theirs and lack basic coping mechanisms.

But I frequently run into people who arrogantly assume I've never even heard of meditation, or that I have a bad diet, etc. and offer them up as panaceas. These people often get defensive and more arrogant whenever I try to explain to them that ADHD is not just some "mental block" or collection of bad habits that can be "fixed".

So yea... I also think we need to do way more clinical studies about the effects of teaching coping mechanisms at a young age, but I don't think autism is something that you can grow out of, there are likely specific underlying genetic and neurological factors that affect how much a specific individual can control or cope with their symptoms.

replies(1): >>cromul+U7
◧◩◪◨⬒
11. soulof+l6[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 19:55:25
>>empres+R4
I was homeless by 16 and had no safety net, had to graduate high school on my own while living out of someone's garage, and generally take care of myself most of my life due to absentee, drug-addict parents, and I can tell you that this trauma only worsened my executive function by the time I had the privilege of being able to sit back and reflect from a place of security and comfort.

I'm sorry you have resentment issues... definitely get that.

◧◩◪
12. riboso+a7[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 20:01:33
>>cromul+53
It sounds to me like the article author calls that social awkwardness not autism, no?

>The key distinctions are that socially awkward individuals understand what they should do socially but find it difficult or uninteresting (versus genuinely not understanding unwritten rules), show significant improvement with practice and maturity, are more comfortable in specific contexts, lack the sensory sensitivities and restricted/repetitive behaviors required for autism diagnosis, and generally achieve life goals despite awkwardness rather than experiencing clinically significant impairment.

It seems to me that this sort of definition would preclude any person having general intelligence such that they are able to learn to mask (or feel like they have to mask less in certain safe areas).

replies(1): >>cromul+69
◧◩◪◨⬒
13. cromul+U7[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 20:08:06
>>soulof+S5
I get it.

Society is moving in the right direction at least. At one point, the bell curve had 3 sections: normal, genius, retarded. Now we have more gradients and some of them trigger help or maybe longer exam times.

This causes over-diagnosis and resentment. Coping mechanisms grow over time. It’s definitely better if you can appear neurotypical.

◧◩◪◨
14. vjvjvj+L8[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 20:15:26
>>klipt+u3
I think so. If I had had somebody in my youth who taught me how to interact with people I am pretty sure I would have done much better. The worst for me was to notice that I don’t fit in and had nobody to help. It was extremely lonely and depressing. But I am also a pretty mild case and performed well in school and work. I am not sure how it would have worked with severe autism cases, for example non verbal people. That’s a different ballgame.
replies(1): >>jeltz+0C
◧◩◪◨
15. cromul+69[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 20:19:55
>>riboso+a7
Yeah, really good point, and I question my own diagnoses sometimes. However: I did not understand for many years why I needed to mask. I was not being contrary or looking for attention - I really did not get it.

Once you understand that neurotypicals have special needs and you must play-act to smooth things over, then you play the game.

I think your comment is very insightful. It made me think and reflect. I am not socially awkward, however: but I am autistic. I really think so. My ability to appear less so over time is my own achievement.

replies(1): >>Yeask+UG
◧◩
16. skrebb+7a[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 20:29:50
>>cwillu+h1
How do you know?
replies(1): >>H8cril+ln
◧◩
17. Aloha+ib[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 20:42:39
>>iambat+32
Commonly called masking - learning the 'rules of the road' for peopling - the hardest thing that young folks with autism or ADHD need to learn is that you must learn how to do this, the world will not (often or always) change to accommodate you - but once you do it, you can appear more or less normal most of the time.
◧◩◪◨
18. cj+Sb[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 20:47:42
>>iambat+84
As part of my job, I have to interview and hire people.

When I first started interviewing people, I would have crippling anxiety. On days I had a interview scheduled with a candidate, I would obsess and have anxiety to the point where I wasn't able to focus on anything until the interview was over. It was bad. I'd spend hours rehearsing every line I was going to say. I was an incredibly awkward interviewer.

Fast forward 10 years and hundreds of interviews later, the anxiety is completely gone and an interview doesn't even spike my heart rate anymore.

I absolutely met multiple DSM criteria for anxiety 10 years ago, but not anymore.

I suppose I was cured through "exposure therapy" (or whatever you call doing something repeatedly that gives you massive anxiety).

Interviewing still doesn't come naturally to me. But it's easy now because every interview is basically scripted. I repeat lines that I memorized over the years. I always start interviews with the same ice breaker. I use multiple tactics to put myself and the candidate at ease throughout the call.

Do I still have anxiety even though I've learned how to cope with it? I don't know.

Is someone still autistic if they were able to learn coping tactics that make the symptoms invisible to themselves and others? I don't know.

replies(2): >>Delk+9k >>nkmnz+Qt
19. nelox+ec[view] [source] 2025-12-06 20:50:49
>>flatli+(OP)
Your experience illustrates something that often gets lost in the autism-vs-not-autism debate: many people don’t fall into clean diagnostic categories. You’re describing a profile that mixes autism traits, trauma adaptations, ADHD features, and developmental history, and instead of neatly labeling you, the system failed you outright with a bipolar misdiagnosis. That alone shows how fragile clinical certainty really is.

I think the most important part of what you wrote is that you changed over time. Whether that improvement came from meditation, therapy, maturity, trauma processing, or simply growing into yourself, it challenges the idea that autism is a static essence. Development, coping skills, neurology, and environment interact in ways the current diagnostic boundaries don’t fully capture.

Where I push back slightly is on the conclusion that self-diagnosis can automatically fill the gaps. For some people it’s deeply accurate and validating, for others it may explain one part of their experience but obscure another. As you said, many people carry a “grab-bag” of traits, and a single label can illuminate or compress that complexity depending on how it’s used.

You’re right that the field has a painful history and uneven present. Misdiagnosis is real. Forced treatment is real. Diagnostic tools are blunt instruments for a very diverse human reality. Supporting research while staying critical of the system makes sense, not because autism isn’t real, but because the categories we have are still evolving. Your story is a perfect example of why humility in diagnosis matters, whether it’s done by a psychiatrist or by oneself.

Edit:typo

◧◩
20. swatco+lc[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 20:51:56
>>iambat+32
There's nothing in the diagnostic models for nearly any mental health concern that presumes a patient would forever earn that diagnosis nor (certainly) that its presentation would be identical through their life even if the diagnosis stood.

There are some clinicians and unfortunately now many patients and caregivers that nonetheless take an essentialist view of diagnosis and come to identify their patient/self/child/peer with what's really just meant to be a guideline for support with ongoing dysfunctions.

In reality, most people face some fluctuating bag of dysfunctions over the course of their life, with fluctuating intensity, with contributing causes too diffuse and numerous to identify. They might be diagnosed squarely by one clinician with one thing thing at one time, then see some other clinician the same day who thinks the diagnosis was overstated or preposterous. Or they might find that a qualifying symptom that seemed very salient at one time of their life hasn't been an issue for them for a long time because of some new learned behavior, some change of circumstance, etc. Likewise, they may even find themselves facing new or greater dysfunctions compared to what they'd experienced or noticed before, precipitated through known or unknown reasons.

For people most intensely disabled by mental health dysfunction, they often can't escape that dysfunction entirely without the discovery and resolution of some kind of radical physiological or environmental issue.

But for the majority of people who just found that they had a hard time with their daily life, but were otherwise independent, and received a diagnosis that helped them see some constellation of related factors and opportunities for accommodation or treatment, things are hardly so static.

For most of early psychology, this marked the distinction between "psychotic" and "neurotic" presentations. The former represented a disruption so severe that escaping disability and achieving independence were largely out of reach, whereas the latter were understood to be real but fluctuating or even ephemeral disturbances.

It's not really until very recently, when so many people started to obsess with "identifying" themselves with this thing or that thing in some kind of permanent way, that this distinction began to fall out of mind.

In the case of those diagnosed with autism as part of generally independent and functional lives, it's not hard to find people who have experienced changes to the symptoms that originally qualified them for the diagnosis -- sometimes positively, sometimes negatively; sometimes during certain times, sometimes permanently. It's also not hard to find people who received such a diagnosis at one time and either felt comfortable fully rejecting that diagnosis at some later time or had a clinician who strongly questioned it or refused to confirm it. None of this stuff is static and much of it is subjective.

21. ok_dad+Pf[view] [source] 2025-12-06 21:25:11
>>flatli+(OP)
I was also misdiagnosed as bipolar due to a crisis years ago, which destroyed my career path in the military and post service. Since then I’ve been diagnosed as autistic, but much like you I’m just capable enough to kind of run the rat race but not quite capable enough to thrive.
replies(1): >>dyausp+7j
◧◩
22. dyausp+7j[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 21:57:38
>>ok_dad+Pf
How though? Isn’t medical data private and you don’t need to share if you don’t want to.
◧◩◪
23. alexfo+6k[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 22:06:41
>>cromul+53
Masking is hugely mentally draining.

I masked for years but recently (possibly linked to some bereavements in the family, who knows what the actual trigger was if there even was one single trigger) the constant effort required just burned me out. Anxiety spiked, depression symptoms loomed, and I just felt exhausted all of the time.

replies(1): >>nkmnz+it
◧◩◪◨⬒
24. Delk+9k[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 22:07:04
>>cj+Sb
I think the difference is that if an autistic person learns to mask, that's probably useful as a coping mechanism but doesn't remove the autism in the sense of making the fundamental neurological difference go away. Anxiety (even in anxiety disorders) can be fundamentally reduced by exposure therapy, not only in the sense of finding more effective coping mechanisms but in the sense of the anxiety itself diminishing or ceasing to exist.

For what it's worth, exposure therapy is a real term and it's an actual part of cognitive behavioural therapy.

◧◩◪
25. H8cril+ln[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 22:33:06
>>skrebb+7a
Maybe because it's a highly effective treatment for severe affective disorders, catatonia, and occasionally even schizophrenia.
◧◩◪◨
26. nkmnz+it[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 23:23:22
>>alexfo+6k
I've spoken to many people in the past 10 years or so who were in a crisis/burnout/depression or however they personally labelled their situation with varying degrees of bad mood, depressed affect, and reduced energy. Every single one of them had a mask they had been wearing for a very long time, and which was hugely mentally draining on them. Most of them wore the mask especially when interacting with themselves, interestingly. Some of them self-identified as neuro-atypical (with or without professional diagnosis), others didn't. Some of them identified their situation as a co-morbidity of being atypical, others as a result of it, or as a pure coincidence. It's not clear to me whether the masks themselves and/or the current inability to wear them were a reason, a symptom, or just a coincidence of said situations and/or the subjective or objective atypicalliness. But whenever I hear that masking has such a huge drain on people with ADHD/autism I wonder about the questions of cause and effect, the question of correlation and causation, and the question of (self-)selection bias. It's really a mess and it's very difficult to make sense of any of that. But mostly, I feel that discussing ways how society could reduce the pressure to mask might be more beneficial to everyone than finding the perfect definitions for groups of people who have an accepted reason to be drained by their masking, while others must still endure because their masking is not socially or medically recognized as unnecessary suffering.

p.s.: hope you're doing better now.

◧◩◪◨⬒
27. nkmnz+Qt[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 23:29:11
>>cj+Sb
Very good questions. Some part of the answer might come down to your identify. Do you identify as an anxious person or a person with anxiety? The question would become even more interesting if you'd be taking a drug: is a person treating their depression successfully with an antidepressant still a depressed person? Or a person with depression? Do you have high blood pressure if you don't have high blood pressure due to meds?
◧◩◪◨⬒
28. jeltz+0C[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-07 00:35:30
>>vjvjvj+L8
A common issue is that autistic children tend to have autistic parents and many autistic parents are sadly bad att helping their kids understanding social interactions.
◧◩◪◨⬒
29. Yeask+UG[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-07 01:29:49
>>cromul+69
I think I have some kind of autism because I have been doing this social skill game for decades and still has not "clicked" with me.

It does not mean I am bad at it, it means I don't understand the rules. I can copy others people tactics and sometimes it works, but still don't know why.

[go to top]