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[parent] [thread] 45 comments
1. throwa+(OP)[view] [source] 2025-12-05 16:41:26
This should really be the end goal. We are worse off than cable right now with all these streaming services and worse , overlapping content.
replies(5): >>mulder+51 >>Burnin+I1 >>smelen+c3 >>serial+07 >>noneth+oV
2. mulder+51[view] [source] 2025-12-05 16:47:17
>>throwa+(OP)
Strong disagree on being worse off than cable. I now almost never see ads, that is a huge benefit in my book.
replies(1): >>MattRi+q3
3. Burnin+I1[view] [source] 2025-12-05 16:49:37
>>throwa+(OP)
Did people forget that on cable you could only watch what was being broadcast in that moment?

Streaming is infinitely better.

replies(4): >>dragon+O2 >>bakies+65 >>autoex+mi >>timeon+c92
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4. dragon+O2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 16:54:26
>>Burnin+I1
> Did people forget that on cable you could only watch what was being broadcast in that moment?

On-demand cable content existed and was significant at the tail end of the period when cable was still dominant, so it is probably lost of most people's baseline (at least, those that didn't either abandon it early or never had it at all) in comparing to cable.

5. smelen+c3[view] [source] 2025-12-05 16:55:51
>>throwa+(OP)
It depends on what you watch and how much you watch.

Cable in its heyday was expensive, even for a low tier package with CNN, TNT, MTV, Nickelodeon and other non-premium channels. Most people did not have premium channels like HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, Starz, etc. Even Disney was a paid add-on in the early 90s. Adding or removing those channels at the minimum meant calling customer service and in certain eras of cable technology could even mean waiting on a tech visit to provision physical descrambling equipment. And obviously TV was linear, not on-demand.

If you watch a series or movie here and there, and aren't a big TV viewer, the streaming era is much, much cheaper with greater choice. You can often even access what you want to watch through a free trial, a single-month subscription, or a free service like Tubi or Pluto. Movie rental options are much better, more convenient, and cheaper (often even before adjusting for inflation) than Blockbuster, and you have access to much better information before you pull the trigger on renting a movie you haven't heard of before.

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6. MattRi+q3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 16:57:09
>>mulder+51
it is nice that if you pay enough you can avoid ads, but they are definitely coming to all the lower price tiers… and the premium tiers will of course get more expensive over time
replies(3): >>SpaceN+r7 >>nemoma+a9 >>bikela+kp1
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7. bakies+65[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 17:03:51
>>Burnin+I1
growing up I always had on-demand and recording on the set top boxes
replies(3): >>ghaff+17 >>autoex+Pi >>laughi+S11
8. serial+07[view] [source] 2025-12-05 17:11:54
>>throwa+(OP)
Why is overlapping content an issue? Isn't that good?

Let's say I like Show A and Show B. Show A is available on Provider 1 and Provider 2, Show B is available at Provider 2 and Provider 3. Thanks to overlapping content, I can subscribe to Provider 2 and I can watch both of my favorite shows.

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9. ghaff+17[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 17:11:56
>>bakies+65
Certainly TiVo came in--as well as boxes from cable companies (though I only had TiVo). And, if you really want to go old school, you could program VCRs to record shows if you were off on vacation.

But there was a long period even after cable came in for more channels and potentially better reception when TV was largely on a set schedule.

replies(1): >>bakies+Cy
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10. SpaceN+r7[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 17:13:05
>>MattRi+q3
At some point, the market will no longer be able to bear premium price hikes, and they'll just shove in ads instead - exactly as happened with cable.
replies(4): >>lukesc+a8 >>marssa+7b >>GuB-42+rk >>maxeri+Mv
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11. lukesc+a8[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 17:16:24
>>SpaceN+r7
HBO never had a tier with ads when it was on cable, it was simply expensive.
replies(2): >>autoex+7g >>_DeadF+pi
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12. nemoma+a9[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 17:20:02
>>MattRi+q3
Where's the amazon prime tier where I don't get ads?
replies(4): >>toast0+Fd >>Neverm+je >>autoex+Eg >>drnick+vs3
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13. marssa+7b[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 17:28:44
>>SpaceN+r7
...and piracy will once again become rampant!
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14. toast0+Fd[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 17:41:14
>>nemoma+a9
Two to five years ago. :P depending on how you feel about their cross-promotions (which are ads, but at least aren't inserted into the content)
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15. Neverm+je[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 17:43:23
>>nemoma+a9
It is called: Prime Video Ad Free

Go to the Prime Video website, or check your settings in Prime Video on your device.

I have lived a video ad free life for decades. I am convinced video ads do bad things to our brains. In aggregate, beyond any individual impact they may or may not have.

Ad blockers, ad free YouTube, Kagi, … whatever it takes.

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16. autoex+7g[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 17:50:54
>>lukesc+a8
Lots of things didn't have ads on the past (basic cable TV for example). Today the model has changed to being expensive and still collect data/push ads. This isn't a cable vs streaming thing, it's a then vs now thing.
replies(3): >>TeMPOr+5m >>basilg+L21 >>raw_an+jq1
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17. autoex+Eg[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 17:53:53
>>nemoma+a9
As far as I can tell there isn't one. Even when you pay extra for no ads the interface itself is infested with them. A truly ad free amazon prime tier wouldn't constantly push shows and movies you that you have to pay for on top of the higher monthly fee you're already paying for or show ads for shows and movies on other platforms.
replies(2): >>TeMPOr+on >>jasomi+va3
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18. autoex+mi[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 18:01:08
>>Burnin+I1
Steaming is slowly going back to that too. Netflix got popular for letting people binge shows that released but increasingly they are putting out shows one episode a week so that they can keep the hype up over a longer period and better monitor/control social media.

Netflix also hides a ton of their content and aggressively pushes whatever is new because it makes it easier for them to get immediate metrics on how popular something is.

Right now, you're pretty much stuck watching whatever is being "streamed in that moment" as it is. For example, netflix added the austin powers movies in October, but by Dec 1 they were removed. You had a window of just 2 months to watch and if you missed them you're stuck waiting for them to "rerun" just like regular TV. I expect that trend to continue with shorter and shorter windows as Netflix pushes people to watch shows when they want you to watch them.

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19. _DeadF+pi[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 18:01:21
>>lukesc+a8
That was 80s Reagan/conservative American. Those folks weren't as greedy as modern day companies and they cared about their product/experience, whereas nowadays caring about that is outsourced (see the Mad Men mess) and greed is king.

It's wild to long for the day of 'caring', 'sane', Reagan era corporate 'governance'.

replies(1): >>gosub1+dw
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20. autoex+Pi[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 18:03:42
>>bakies+65
For a short time there VCRs and DVRs even came with ad blockers that automatically removed commercials!
replies(2): >>bakies+Jy >>rightb+Fo1
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21. GuB-42+rk[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 18:10:11
>>SpaceN+r7
There is a difference between a streaming platform and cable. Streaming platforms are on demand while cable is broadcast.

To have an ads/no ads option with cable, you need 2 distinct channels with different programming, as you need something fill what would be the ad breaks. With an on-demand platform, there is no fixed schedule, so you can insert ads at will without having to account for that.

So even if the market for no ads is small, it doesn't cost them much to provide that option, and they just have to price it above how much they get from ads to make a profit. Even the seldom used YouTube Premium is actually quite profitable for Google. Streaming platforms won't miss that opportunity.

replies(1): >>yunwal+le1
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22. TeMPOr+5m[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 18:18:37
>>autoex+7g
True. People forget television itself is barely 100 years old. Business models don't grow on trees, they need to be invented and they evolve along with the technology.

Advertising was with us for centuries, but it took until last few decades for it to evolve into a social cancer it is today.

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23. TeMPOr+on[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 18:24:07
>>autoex+Eg
They're clever with that, by offering subscriptions to various producers and other streaming platforms within Amazon Prime video UI. The Amazon subscription is very cheap, but then you end up sub-subscribing to SkyShowtime and MGM and Apple Video to get access to your favorite space shows, and suddenly it's cable 2.0.

Wouldn't be so bad if the player didn't suck. You'd think video streaming chrome would be a solved problem by now, but it's not, and somehow we're regressing on this front.

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24. maxeri+Mv[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 18:59:23
>>SpaceN+r7
My understanding is that they already make more money on the ad tiers.

(So the price increases are about finding the revenue maximizing price for the ad free tiers, not about overall profit)

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25. gosub1+dw[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 19:00:48
>>_DeadF+pi
Look up "corporate raiders" if you think business people weren't greedy in the 80s, or the dissolution of Ma Bell, that used to rent you your phone. In fact, the 80s era cable TV also started the box rental racket. You could not choose to buy, you had to rent.

Regan's politics are completely orthogonal to IP content today.

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26. bakies+Cy[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 19:11:06
>>ghaff+17
Didn't the VCR still work with cable? (I haven't used one)
replies(2): >>ghaff+xN >>adrian+ko1
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27. bakies+Jy[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 19:11:40
>>autoex+Pi
I remember upgrading the tivo for this
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28. ghaff+xN[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 20:25:22
>>bakies+Cy
I was probably still using recordable VCRs when I had cable--though it was probably still composite video/audio input. But at some point I started using TiVo. Don't remember the whole tech evolution.
29. noneth+oV[view] [source] 2025-12-05 21:03:21
>>throwa+(OP)
Oh my god no. The content is much better and you can watch whenever you want.
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30. laughi+S11[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 21:34:28
>>bakies+65
Where I lived the local cable company boasted something like 250 channels on the base tier. But when your cable box arrived you discovered there were less than 50 actual broadcast channels, and the rest were pricey on-demand channels. I think it was about $5 for a movie, which is more than Amazon Prime today and much more in constant dollars.
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31. basilg+L21[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 21:38:34
>>autoex+7g
I'm really confused why this comment is downvoted to me. It's a pretty salient observation in my opinion. If it's because it's obvious to others, I think it bears repetition because it's an important distinction to the contrary.
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32. yunwal+le1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 22:51:28
>>GuB-42+rk
Whenever a no ads tier is offered, a few ads always get shoved into the premium subscription eventually (see: spotify) because companies want to be able to reach the premium customers, who have more disposable income on average.
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33. adrian+ko1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 00:03:47
>>bakies+Cy
It did, but it was awkward.

Analog cable channels were on a wider range of frequencies than regular TV (radio broadcast) channels. So the VCR's tuner had to be "cable ready".

Some cable channels, especially premium channels, were "scrambled", which meant you needed a cable box to tune them. So the VCR, by itself, could only record the basic channels that came with all cable packages. To record something from a movie channel (HBO, Showtime, etc.), you needed the cable box to tune it in and provide an unscrambled signal to your VCR.

And that meant the cable box needed to be set to the correct channel at the time the VCR woke up and started recording. The simple method was to leave it on the correct channel, but that was tedious and error prone. As I recall, there were also VCRs that could send a command to the cable box to turn it on (emulating the cable box remote) and set the channel, but you had to set that up.

Later, when digital cable came along, you needed the cable box involved for every recording because the channels were no longer coming over the wire in a format that the VCR could tune in.

So yeah, you could do it, but it was a pain.

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34. rightb+Fo1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 00:07:44
>>autoex+Pi
How was that possible? Audio loudness?
replies(1): >>Burnin+tt3
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35. bikela+kp1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 00:13:43
>>MattRi+q3
Cable was like $80/mo for me and the vast majority of the channels was absolute garbage. Now I pay like 25/mo and swap services every month or two. There’s always something new and interesting to watch - for my relatively minimal watching hours at least. I’m not sure how you feel worse off? You know you don’t need to stay subscribed to every service year round?
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36. raw_an+jq1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 00:21:02
>>autoex+7g
This meme needs to die and was never true.

Cable TV started out as a means to broadcast network TV in areas where they couldn’t get it over the air. Those stations always had ads.

Then came nationwide rebroadcast of local “SuperStations” in Atlanta (TBS) and Chicago (WGN) with ads.

There has never been a time where basic cable didn’t have ads

replies(1): >>autoex+QV1
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37. autoex+QV1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 06:17:53
>>raw_an+jq1
There absolutely was. I was alive when it happened. It was a major selling point of the service. The only ads you'd ever see were promotions for shows that would later be shown on the same channel. Those ads were only shown after one show had ended and before the next show started. Even then, at first they were nothing but title cards showing static text. Sometimes there was also a countdown clock telling you when the next show would start.

After that came ads for what was going to shown on other channels as well, but again they'd never interrupt the programs you were watching and there zero ads for things like cars or laundry detergent.

Then slowly, a few channels started adding them in various formats until eventually there was little difference between ads shown on cable and ads on broadcast TV

Here's an article from the 80s talking about ads slowly but surely encroaching on what was essentially an ad free space: https://web.archive.org/web/20180120172105/https://www.nytim...

some choice quotes:

> When cable first came on the scene, one of the most important points it made was that it was a non-commercial alternative to television,'' she says. ''Now advertisers are saying, 'Here's another place to think of on a costper-thousand basis.' ''

> A much-cited - and widely disputed - study by the Benton & Bowles advertising agency found that the public would accept advertising if it meant a reduction or a holding-of-the-line on subscription fees

> The bottom-line assessment of cable advertising is that it is too good to turn down. ''Who wants advertising on cable?'' Mr. Dann asks rhetorically. ''Anyone who wants to make money.''

replies(1): >>raw_an+AW1
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38. raw_an+AW1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 06:28:45
>>autoex+QV1
You’re suffering from the Mandela affect. How was your cable ad free when it was rebroadcasting ABC, NBC, CBS, TBS (1976), and WGN that were all over the air with ads they were the first national “cable stations”.

MTV was also an early cable station and it launched in 1981 - with ads. USA, CNN, ESPN and Nick also came around in 1979-1980 - with ads from day one.

This is an article from 1981 in the NYT.

https://www.nytimes.com/1981/07/26/arts/will-cable-tv-be-inv...

BTW, I’m 51.

If retransmitted broadcast TVs had ads - the first content on cable - and the superstations, and the first pure cable channels, how could there have been a time without ads? There were never national basic cable stations that weren’t trying to sell ads from day one.

The article said people thought there wouldn’t be ads as cable got more popular - ie as cable channels popped up and cable became more than just a way to rebroadcast OTA TV.

This argument comes up all of the time on HN

>>38778167

>>10459839

>>38782923

>>33177470

replies(1): >>autoex+aY1
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39. autoex+aY1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 06:52:30
>>raw_an+AW1
Broadcast TV stations weren't considered "cable channels" even though they also came over the wire. Cable channels were those channels you got that your neighbor who didn't have cable couldn't see. Ad free cable channels were way before MTV. Even the national cable stations were late to the party.

At your age, if you never saw ad free cable you were either a late adopter or you just had a terrible local cable provider.

replies(1): >>raw_an+912
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40. raw_an+912[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 07:48:47
>>autoex+aY1
Again what were these stations? Are you referring to local access TV?

Basic cable delivered in order

- broadcast TV stations - with ads

- “Superstations” - with ads and your neighbors couldn’t get TBS unless they lived in metro Atlanta

- MTV, Nickelodeon, ESPN, USA, CNN etc - with ads and informercials

Everything I find was that HBO was first. But not basic cable in 1972. CSPAN in 1979 (well admittedly that didn’t have commercials). Then TBS

By 1983, I remember I had about 20 channels - two each of NBC, CBS, ABC - CNN, MTV, TBS, Nickelodeon, USA, some medical precursor to Lifetime, CBN, WGN, the weather channel, are the ones I can remember

replies(1): >>autoex+Md2
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41. timeon+c92[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 09:41:44
>>Burnin+I1
You could plan ahead and record and time shift. This isn’t as convenient, but no-one was removing content you didn’t get to watch. BTW, in countries like the UK recording TV - especially over Christmas - is still a way to build a legal personal archive. Streaming is better today, but don’t rely on it being better forever.
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42. autoex+Md2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 10:43:29
>>raw_an+912
Local cable providers would broadcast shows on local cable channels. It was mainly movies. Only a few cable channels, plus regular broadcast TV.

The sales pitch was that cable channels didn't have ads because your fees paid for those channels instead, but obviously broadcast TV would still include ads because the ads were just part of the broadcast. Cable programing was very limited, but the promise was it would get better and it was still ad free and looked better than TV over rabbit ears and you got access to broadcast TV in that same quality. It was a pretty easy sell! I doubt many people would have paid for cable if it only offered broadcast TV which most people were already getting for free. I mean, the quality jump was nice, but it's not like most of us hadn't been putting up with it just fine. For people who couldn't get a decent signal I could see it though.

At some point the number of channels expanded to include national channels. Which national channels you got and when depended on your cable provider and whatever agreements they reached for those feeds. Then all you had were national channels. You might even remember ads on some of those channels asking you to call your cable provider and demand certain other national channels that weren't yet avilable in your area.

Eventually cable TV sort of homogenized and everyone pretty much everyone had access to the same set of channels no matter where they were even as some channels changed or went away entirely. Channels were split between premium and basic, then split again to basic, expanded basic, and premium and then split again to multiple package tiers etc. That's how I remember it anyway.

replies(1): >>raw_an+Ns2
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43. raw_an+Ns2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 13:26:01
>>autoex+Md2
It’s in every history write up of cable that the main draw of cable pre 1979 was the ability to get broadcast TV clearly and HBO. It wasn’t like these local channels - that I can’t find anything about anywhere - had first run content or “pay 1 window” movies as they left the theatres that was HBO.
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44. jasomi+va3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 19:22:25
>>autoex+Eg
Hulu "no ads" is even worse.

Live TV? Ads. Shows available as part of streaming packages for channels included in live TV? Ads. Random other stuff "due to streaming rights"? Ads.

At this point I pretty much assume any non-Disney programming that isn't a Hulu original will have ads, and access it by other means, partly as a minor act of civil disobedience, but mostly because I'm impatient (i.e., never in my life have I actually watched television advertising, even when forced to sit through it).

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45. drnick+vs3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 22:09:25
>>nemoma+a9
It's called Flixer.
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46. Burnin+tt3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-06 22:18:25
>>rightb+Fo1
On possibility is that there are a few black screens before and after the commercial block is inserted. I know there was talk about using it. Don't know how much it actually was.
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