What is wrong with just wanting to work for money?
> I am not sure what has happened over the decades regarding actually being proud of the work you produce.
Maybe if wages kept up with inflation people would still care. You know, when I was young, I was able to rent an apartment while being a cashier in a grocery store.
Socially and emotionally? It's brutal. For both the employee and society in general.
Spending almost half their waking hours not caring is not good for people.
Work being "just a paycheck" does not mean you hate it or half ass it. But, it means you do go home to get rest, you do socialize outside of work instead of irrationally pushing it and then using meetings for socialization. It means you do not have ego tied to it so much you throw temper tantrum when things are imperfect (which is not the same as being able to change things for the better).
I expect my employees to show up to work and put forth a solid effort on a regular basis. Note that this doesn't mean a constant death march towards some unreasonable objective, or anything even close to it. Just apply yourself using the skills we agree you have for the pay we also agreed upon for 8 hours a day on average. In my field, this means you have pay that is well above the norm for an average software developer, and the working conditions are good or better.
A shocking number of people are incapable of this, and generally are also the same people who would claim that "they didn't start this".
Currently AI "solutions" being implemented in places like call centers are often technical solutions attempting to pave over organizational problems. Many IT solutions are like that. We refuse to fix the underlying problems, so we layer software on top, so we won't notice the stupidity below.
IT companies will happily take the money and write the code, broken as it might be, because the real problems aren't actually resolved. That to me is a problem. Companies needs to be way better at saying no, and offer help address the underlying issues instead, even if they aren't technical in nature.
You still can almost everywhere outside of places like SF? I just spot-checked some data, and in Minneapolis for example currently available apartments are comparable to what they were when I was looking 10 years ago, cashier wages have gone up 45%, and that often comes with healthcare benefits now. It's not an especially wealthy life, but a single person should be very comfortable (that's a comparable hourly wage and apartment cost to what I had delivering pizza at some other part of my life, and I lived comfortably and was able to save up to splurge on a nicer used Miata and the down payment for a small house).
every company in the united states could become a co-op and nothing would change for the business and everything would change for the workers. And everyone would be much happier at work and you would have the caring people you want.
It is the system that is the problem, not the people.
> What is wrong with just wanting to work for money?
Imagine a society where your work was an opportunity for you to provide products/services for your community, where you could earn a reputation for craftsmanship and caring, and where the real value was in the social ties and sense of social worth-- your community cares for you just as you care for it, and selfish assholery has high costs leading to poverty.
Now imagine a society where the only measure of social worth is a fiat currency, and it doesn't matter how you get it, only matters how much you have. Selfish assholery is rewarded and actually caring leads to poverty.
Which society would you rather live in? Which society is more emotionally healthy?
So the question is, is our current society the one we want to live in? If not, how do we move it closer to what we want?
And if you hate your job, but are completely unable to find alternative employment (which is what you should do if you hate your job), you probably should reconsider how much you hate your job.
Seriously, pay people what they are worth and they will care. It is not that hard.
I take pride in the stuff I enjoy doing. A job is just a paycheck because I need it.
Nothing. In fact, I envy people who can and wish I could. Consider it one of my largest flaws.
By going all Ted Kaczynski on the elite and abandon sensationism and most of technology.
At no point did I state or imply that workers should be working solely or even primarily for anything other than money.
But if you can't be bothered to take pride in the work you're being paid to do, you shouldn't be paid to do it for long.
Can an employee obtain better employment terms elsewhere (which is a complex concept to define in itself)? If so, they are underpaid, if not, they aren't.
I used to cope like that. I told myself that I could throw myself into my work, maybe stand out and make a difference. Guess what? I was overworked, burned out, and laid off right as I worked a few weekends and pushed through a crazy (and arbitrary) deadline. I still haven't recovered emotionally. I was sort of believing the lie, for a bit, but this severed the last thread.
My story isn't unique or special, but then I come on HN and I get told that I just have to "take pride in my work", like I'm not checking my e-mail every day to see if I even still have a job, during the worst cost of living crisis since 2008. I'm sorry, that's a fucking joke.
There are a million other things I'd rather be doing all day than this. And a lot of them involve programming a computer! But not things that allow some suit to send me a smarmy e-mail about "making 2026 our best year ever", no. Things that help me, my friends, my family, my community. Those are the only things that matter. Work exists because my landlord wants to retire comfortably in Florida. Bully for him. The rest of us, well. We have to grind it out and hope we make it to the finish line.
I agree with your second sentence, but it's harder than it should be due to what I said above.
What's the point of inventing a non-existent situation where you're obviously correct, other than self-gratification?
You have many choices, but it sounds like none of them would be a better choice than continued employment at your current workplace.
> Somehow, when we talk about companies laying off thousands, that's "business as usual" and "nothing personal". But when an employee acts like the robot the company sees them as, suddenly people get upset!
I'm not upset, I'm quite satisfied with my own professional life and life overall. But people aren't robots, who do exactly what they are asked for as long as possible without complaint. They expect to be treated better than they treat others, including their employer, and are often completely unaware of the value they provide to an employer and the cost of their employment.
> Why is it so hard to understand that people work because they have to, and not because they want to? Why is that so threatening to your worldview? Is it because, deep down, you know it's true?
You are completely missing my point, as is everyone else who is insistent on having an adversarial relationship with their employer and/or capitalism in general.
I know people work because they need to. I don't expect people to jump out of bed in the morning thinking about how much money they're going to make for their employer that day and how they can sacrifice themselves for the benefit of others.
I am suggesting that instead of seeing how little you can get away with as an employee each day without losing that job you need to maintain your current standard of living, you make an effort to do work you are proud of, for your own sake, by working to the best of your abilities without negatively impacting your well being.
Either you'll build skills that will increase your earnings potential, or you'll have reached the limits of your ability and should continue to produce quality work to retain your current job.
> I used to cope like that. I told myself that I could throw myself into my work, maybe stand out and make a difference. Guess what? I was overworked, burned out, and laid off right as I worked a few weekends and pushed through a crazy (and arbitrary) deadline. I still haven't recovered emotionally. I was sort of believing the lie, for a bit, but this severed the last thread.
Sorry that was your experience, but this isn't coping. Working a few weekends doesn't permanently damage most people emotionally, but I hope you recover at some point.
> My story isn't unique or special, but then I come on HN and I get told that I just have to "take pride in my work", like I'm not checking my e-mail every day to see if I even still have a job, during the worst cost of living crisis since 2008. I'm sorry, that's a fucking joke.
You don't have to. You can continue to be as bitter as your posts here seem to be and probably be pretty dissatisfied with the state of your life, or find some enjoyment in something you have to do for a significant portion of your time each week and probably be less bitter and dissatisfied.
> There are a million other things I'd rather be doing all day than this. And a lot of them involve programming a computer! But not things that allow some suit to send me a smarmy e-mail about "making 2026 our best year ever", no. Things that help me, my friends, my family, my community. Those are the only things that matter. Work exists because my landlord wants to retire comfortably in Florida. Bully for him. The rest of us, well. We have to grind it out and hope we make it to the finish line.
Then go do them, and if you need to work for someone else for part of the week to afford to do them, probably have some gratitude that you have a job that almost certainly pays well above the median for your area, rather than whining about receiving an email you can just ignore and that you have to pay for shelter instead of having someone else provide it to you for no reason other than you feel entitled to it.