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1. vlovic+(OP)[view] [source] 2025-12-05 05:13:06
Has the cultural attitude towards shame perhaps shifted?

There was a gilded age in the early 20th century and we appear to have entered another gilded age - do you think something structural or cultural has changed? I have a hard time a president like Trump getting elected in past elections - certainly he models himself after Nixon and even Nixon was a very very different kind of president both in temperament but also being less about self aggrandizement.

replies(3): >>ngc248+H9 >>datafl+at >>throaw+ae5
2. ngc248+H9[view] [source] 2025-12-05 07:19:43
>>vlovic+(OP)
Yep, shame is the cornerstone of civilization and the scoiety right now seems to be more and more shameless.
replies(1): >>mining+vh
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3. mining+vh[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 08:39:10
>>ngc248+H9
Yeah people don't realise this, but shame and guilt (and fear) are our 2 society building emotions. Each society has it's own mix of these, and there are also "themes" depending on which is the dominant one.

Shame has practically been thrown out the window in certain places and we can see the effects of that - people scamming each other, lying in the streets, etc. Guilt is also being eroded across the west, leading to things like rampant criminality and punishments that are less than a slap on the wrist.

Fundamentally these emotions are designed to keep us in check with the rest of the group - does this negatively affect some: yes. But at the benefit of creating high trust societies. Every time I encounter this topic I can't help but think: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

4. datafl+at[view] [source] 2025-12-05 09:24:24
>>vlovic+(OP)
> do you think something structural or cultural has changed

Obviously it has? For one thing, we have billions more people on the planet. For another, we have far more constrained resources -- from the environment to education to everything else -- even for a constant number of people, never mind for the ever-increasing population size. (And there are more factors, but these are more than sufficient to get the point across.) These make competition more intense... in every aspect of life, for everyone. And it's only natural that more cutthroat competition results in more people breaking the norms and rules.

It would be shocking if this didn't happen. If there's a question at all, it's really around is when this occurs -- not if it does.

replies(1): >>prewet+MO1
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5. prewet+MO1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-12-05 17:04:09
>>datafl+at
We've also been rebelling against traditional values for over fifty years and even celebrating it in song and movies. We've adopted a utilitarian ethic in lieu of the traditional values we've rebelled against. I think those are more salient probable causes than over-crowding, especially since the reasoning given for over-crowding as a reason uses a utilitarian ethic (people are only good because they can afford do be). A large part of virtue is doing the good thing regardless of hard times or good times.
6. throaw+ae5[view] [source] 2025-12-06 22:27:12
>>vlovic+(OP)
Trump got in because he was an actual change from the normal establishment politicians. People want real change, and they did get it...
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