I'm doing better than fine.
Have others who cheated done better than me? Sure - some have. Why should I care? I'm a high income earner and I don't need an even wealthier life.
I am not at all an outlier. If you're amongst a crowd that won't value you for not cheating, it's on you to change the crowd you hang out with.
I do. I still subscribe to your ideals or at least mostly follow them. But for lack of playing such games, I saw my children’s opportunities slip away.
At the same time, we may need to adjust our baseline on what we call "opportunities".
I've lived in other countries, and one of the nice things about the US is how uncompetitive school is. One could (and likely still can) get into a decent "average" university without much difficulty. In other countries, not so. You could be in the top 10% academically and end up in a really low quality university. I would understand playing such games there.
In my case, it so happened that the goals I was pursuing (e.g. job in tech industry) had lots of opportunities that didn't involve playing many games. I think it's still the case today.
But if your goal is "I have to go to an elite university, and become a senior exec at a FAANG", then my way may not work out.
The one variable that's hard to control, though, is how things are growing up (childhood/teen years). You can't control these - your parents/school do. If you grew up in an unfair environment and had poor parents, you may have to play those games. My point is that once you get past those stages, you don't have to convince yourself that you need to continue playing those games.
Examples? I most certainly don't play these games and believe my kids are further along in developing the most valuable, lasting characteristic: grit. So many things in life require you to grind, and the only way to gain this is to practice.
getting a kid who doesn't deserve entry to pass a prestige university with as little effort as possible is an effort to short-circuit that concept.
many games to play in this world.
I can’t provide proper education and practice. There is no grit or grind. They’re just falling further and further behind the ones who actually got access to good schools and teachers.
One who tested highly gifted (145 IQ) after years of educational neglect now tests at 120. It’s pathetic. And even if I spend all my time and money I cannot reverse the decline.
What role do you play in the educational neglect? I am not sure I understand the decline here.
The most revealing example of this was when I found out how many of UK's 'elite' school children were molested, grew up and proceeded to do everything they can to make sure their children attend these very same 'elite' schools.
Western culture is beyond repair.
Because I can’t access good schools and teachers. Because I didn’t schmooze to the admissions directors and other gate keepers.
I should’ve worn better clothes, driven a Porsche, and displayed the right shibboleths. Except that even now I’m too immature and stupid to know what they are.
Not the person you're responding to, but that's uncalled for.
There are many variables that go into a child's development. The parents are merely one of them. They can do their best and things can still go south.
The difference is you're going to pay nosebleed prices or take out extortionate student loans in the US.
This is the bigger problem, not the type of car or clothes you drive. I dress like a schlub and drive a Toyota and don't feel any of the social pressures you're talking about. I think it's in your head.
>145 -> 120 IQ decline
You're also putting way way too much emphasis on this test. The methodology of IQ tests is also entirely questionable. I'd hardly be judging myself as a parent based on this.
(Well, except they also have private schools, but the cost to income ratio is much higher there than here).
It may be, but it also could be the community/town he lives in. I certainly do know schools where you need to play games to get admission, and dressing like a schlub would exclude you (which is fine, given I have alternatives - he perhaps doesn't).
> The methodology of IQ tests is also entirely questionable. I'd hardly be judging myself as a parent based on this.
Fully agree on ignoring the IQ (why would one even get it tested?)
However, I suspect he does see other signals of decline, and sees those who went to the school achieve more.
Obviously “home life” encompasses many things like parental involvement, stability of family relationships, socioeconomic status, etc. And it’s not the only factor of course.
So the question is hardly uncalled for IMO. Could have been worded in a less accusatory tone though! The person was pretty rude.
About half of those 4-year college students are earning degrees that are mostly filler and would be 2-year colleges plus remedial and/or fluff courses. USA has a very weird college industrial complex.
China, meanwhile is undergroing a massive push to send a majority of the population through some form of college or another.
What are your ideals?
Yes, but it's easier to get into a public university in the US.
In those countries, it's the reverse. Very hard to get into a public university. Private ones mostly exist not for quality, but to cater to rich folks who could not get into a public university.
Which means that in those countries, unless you're quite rich, your only chance is to study like crazy to get into a public university. And by crazy - I know people who didn't do anything but study in the last two years of high school. As soon as they get home from school they'd hit the books, taking breaks only for food. The entrance exams would require an intense amount of memorization.
A random data point: In one country, to get into an MBA program, the entrance exam would ask number theory problems. Not because it's at all related to MBA - they just need to make it harder to filter out more candidates - they simply don't have enough seats.
As for the ratio, I'm sure it's several multiples of the median, because the median is almost poverty level. But it's not a relevant metric, because most of those folks don't even get to finish high school - their economic conditions make them quit to work - the family needs money.