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European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

submitted by saubei+(OP) on 2025-11-13 15:30:15 | 134 points 189 comments
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12. jacque+e8[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-13 16:05:19
>>macint+U5
That may well be, but if there had been a different person in the White House (or what's left of it) they would have most likely bought it anyway. They're just not going to come out and say it but the 'strategic' element is what points to that, I doubt the US would have withdrawn in Juli if not for Trump, Hegseth and their buddies. This is just one more program they've gutted.

https://breakingdefense.com/2025/06/air-force-cancels-e-7-we...

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32. toomuc+oc[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-13 16:24:33
>>F3nd0+va
China needs Europe to support its export economy because there will never be enough domestic demand to prevent a deflationary spiral. Europe is a rational actor China can expect to act rationally in trade, and Europe can benefit from that.

The US has nothing to offer Europe except LNG that Europe cannot produce itself, or obtain from China at better price or quality. Canada has ~200 years of LNG reserves and can ship to Europe from LNG Canada.

https://tradingeconomics.com/european-union/imports/united-s...

https://ember-energy.org/data/china-cleantech-exports-data-e...

The True Cost of China's Falling Prices - >>45876691 - November 2025

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/united-states/americas-self-d...

> In 1995, China accounted for less than five percent of global manufacturing output. By 2010, that number had jumped to around a quarter, and today it stands at nearly a third.

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77. toomuc+Mn[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-13 17:16:07
>>myrmid+Xh
Apologies if my phrasing was not concise. The idea I intended to communication was "Europe can get all the LNG they want from Canada, and anything manufactured from China."

To your point about the US market, I would put forth the size of China, India, and Africa as import markets for Europe. The population of the US is ~343M, ~745M is Europe, while that of China, India, and Africa combined is ~4.6B (as of this comment, rough proxy for total addressable markets). Admittedly the latter are at various stages of development, but I am of a strong opinion they can replace the US considering demographics, proximity, rate of development and purchasing power increasing, etc. International equities have already outperformed the S&P500 this year, so this may happen faster than we might expect. China is not as quite as wealthy as the US, but India and Africa are the last of global emerging markets and where the economic growth future of the world is. Do you configure and target your export economy for growing markets? Or declining markets?

Citations:

https://bsky.app/profile/carlquintanilla.bsky.social/post/3m... | https://archive.today/P2HxS ("International stocks are outperforming the S&P 500 by the widest margin in 16 years.") - November 12th, 2025

Goldman Strategists See US Stocks Lagging All Peers Next Decade - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-11-12/goldman-s... | https://archive.today/aINUx - November 12th, 2025

>>44769439

>>44455077

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80. Silver+bp[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-13 17:21:13
>>barbaz+5j
I don’t think we can square it exactly. The US isn’t perfect and has deep issues as well. But it just depends on which values you care about. For me, I think despite problems, the US has a more trustworthy system of democracy than most countries. And as far as democratic values like free speech - it’s far above literally any other country in the world in protecting those rights. These things alone make it special - I think it lets the US consider different ideas and change over time.

For Venezuela and Iran specifically - I won’t claim to be an expert on either. But I think neither the Maduro dictatorship nor Iranian theocracy are legitimate. You can read about how Maduro suppressed opposition movements and manipulated elections in many sources (example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicol%C3%A1s_Maduro). As for Iran, the current theocratic authoritarian government came into power via a revolution in 1979 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Iran). Sure it replaced a monarchy, but that monarchy was actually quite liberal and photos of Iran from that era show a culture that was very different from today. That was taken away from their people, and replaced with their current rulers’ cultural agenda.

As for specifically the issue of whether people voted for something or not - well the US system and I think all democratic systems that exist today aren’t direct democracies. We give powers to the presidency and congress that let them do a lot of things. That’s by design, but it is still at the service of the people, who have the ability to alter the constitution at any time. If someone (like the president) breaks the law, we have the ability to hold them accountable. But I also know sometimes they get away with crimes. I look at that as minor flaws of an otherwise very functional system.

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91. wallet+Ct[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-13 17:39:40
>>jleyan+Vj
F35 has far better bvr capabilities than the eurofighter and in practice ends up being far more useful in the air superiority role.

Eurofighter is really only good for peacetime patrols, the F35 will detect and shoot down enemies in real conflict far before the Eurofighter can do anything.

In a bizarre hypothetical conflict you would certainly not want to engage a F35 in an Eurofighter, the Eurofighter would be knocked out of the sky long before it could even see the F35. It certainly couldn’t turn on it’s radar.

There are extensive public studies available from e.g. the Danish government that ended up with the conclusion that the F35 is far superior in air-to-air combat. https://www.fmn.dk/globalassets/fmn/dokumenter/strategi/kamp...

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113. saubei+xA[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-13 18:08:54
>>radeck+gy
Re the US not having our back - here's just the latest evidence: https://apnews.com/article/pentagon-security-funding-baltics...

Re China: We don't share any border or ocean with them and none of our interests are opposed. To the contrary, they're the only other major power taking climate change seriously. Why would they be a threat to us?

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126. throw-+XE[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-13 18:29:24
>>kogus+g8
But Europe did block the rapprochement with Russia in the 1990s, which the US was trying to achieve. https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/secret-documents-...
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145. toomuc+2V[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-13 19:46:30
>>tick_t+lO
https://www.shell.com/news-and-insights/our-stories/lng-cana... ("July 1, 2025: With production underway in Kitimat on Canada’s west coast, LNG Canada connects natural gas from British Columbia to Asian markets. Explore the project with our interactive map, read about the extraordinary engineering behind LNG Canada, and watch the videos to learn more about LNG.")

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNG_Canada

https://www.gem.wiki/LNG_Canada_Terminal

https://www.lngcanada.ca/

>>43322266

https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/facilities-we-reg...

https://www.politico.eu/article/canada-lng-europe-tim-hodgso...

(commodity market participant)

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170. jaunty+f82[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-14 05:47:58
>>macint+q5
The first could e-7a aren't even slated to have particularly good radars. The US kept trying to do whatever it takes to get the price down & it keeps being hideously expensive anyways, with who knows what capabilities left on the cutting room floor.

There was a request for information that went out in April, asking, hey, uh, if we do want to make this an actually good awacs, what should we do with the platform? https://breakingdefense.com/2025/04/air-force-eyes-advanced-...

Seems incredibly silly to me that such an incredibly crucial capability is being so sorely neglected. Having superior signals has loon been a key US advantage, that's core to enabling so many other capabilities to be used well. Theres what feels like absurd fantasy going around saying we can skip airborne platforms & just use space for all awacs needs. And who knows maybe, but it feels like a lot of ridiculous wish casting, that's leaving us with horrendous woefully inadequate eyes, ears, & links today. We need a real e-7 plan, one with a really good sensors not the decades old tech that the US's E-7A defined.

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187. toomuc+xi6[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-11-15 20:14:45
>>toomuc+Mn
Additional citation:

How the Rest of the World Is Moving on From Trump’s ‘America First’ - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2025-11-15/the-wo... | https://archive.today/m67tK - November 15th, 2025

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