zlacker

Fight Chat Control

submitted by tokai+(OP) on 2025-08-10 16:50:34 | 1493 points 462 comments
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8. Dispos+4g[view] [source] 2025-08-10 19:05:26
>>tokai+(OP)
I'm French and every idiot supports it, even the so-called left. There is nothing I can do except donate money every month to GrapheneOS (https://grapheneos.org/donate). Democracy is dead for me.
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25. croes+rh[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 19:18:48
>>cobbzi+kg
The EU countries also have constitutions with laws that make that illegal.

Still they try because there is always an exception that allows breaking those laws.

Chat control isn’t something the EU invented, they tried to implement CSAM in Apple devices and the whole chat control thing in the EU was heavily lobbied by Thorn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(organization)

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36. nosiop+Hi[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 19:31:50
>>Centig+jh
I'm unaware of Sealand[0] engaging in surveillance against its citizen.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand

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42. amarch+kj[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 19:35:25
>>101008+Gi
If it hasn't been changed, not only politicians but law enforcement officers too would be exempt

This is one of the many abuses by Leo(s), part why I don't love and trust police in italy: https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatti_del_G8_di_Genova#p-lan...

I thought there was an English Wikipedia page but there isn't, translate it

50. setnon+uk[view] [source] 2025-08-10 19:42:25
>>tokai+(OP)
Excellent resources section [0] including "Digital technologies as a means of repression and social control" study from European Parliament

[0] https://fightchatcontrol.eu/resources

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56. RickS+8l[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 19:47:14
>>cobbzi+Sf
This video by Benn Jordan makes the case that yes, traditional capitalism and empowerment by way of ownership are eroding in favor of a rent-seeking subscription economy. This economy requires continuous payment for participation with services that are not only merely loaned to us, but are loaned under the constant threat of banishment if we fail to contort ourselves to comply with nebulous, ever changing terms set by orgs that don't care about us. One such contortion is the agreement to be surveilled at all times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqtrNXdlraM

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62. hagbar+hl[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 19:48:26
>>101008+Gi
Quod licet Iovi non licet bovi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quod_licet_Iovi,_non_licet_bov...

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87. bqmjjx+Qn[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 20:09:03
>>JoshTr+Jm
Well... "TM Signal" was just in the news. It's close enough I bet it could fool some percentage of otherwise security-conscious users. https://www.wired.com/story/tm-signal-telemessage-plaintext-...
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102. betaby+2p[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 20:18:44
>>alphaz+Rm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution probably a solution
109. rossan+0q[view] [source] 2025-08-10 20:26:19
>>tokai+(OP)
Sometimes, very bad things are done in the name of "child protection". >>37650402
113. throwa+Hq[view] [source] 2025-08-10 20:34:54
>>tokai+(OP)
Please also fight mandatory age verification with prison sentences. The European Parliament has already voted in favor of a law that mandates age verification for pornography with a one year prison sentence. It was included as a last minute amendment into this bill [1]. See "Amendment 186". It has been completely missed by news organizations and even interest groups.

The full accepted article reads: "Disseminating pornographic content online without putting in place robust and effective age verification tools to effectively prevent children from accessing pornographic content online shall be punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of at least 1 year."

It's not law yet, as the first reading is now sent back to the Council of the European Union, but I don't think it's very likely it will get a second reading.

[1] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-10-2025-011...

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116. vaylia+7r[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 20:39:33
>>echelo+Vn
There's lobby organisations that try to influence politicians in different countries: https://balkaninsight.com/2023/09/25/who-benefits-inside-the...
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126. bombel+at[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 21:00:54
>>AlecSc+3m
nah they meant unlawful. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/unlawful
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144. HelloU+Wv[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 21:21:32
>>alphaz+Rm
You ask a valid and clear question, sadly no one yet properly responded :( I'll try: using an app that can communicate without ever connecting to the internet? Such as: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id6748584483
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153. Aerroo+Ew[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 21:27:16
>>echelo+Vn
I think the UK (and EU) have been at this for a while. The UK pushed for the Data Retention Directive in the EU in the mid 2000s that required ISPs to save all the websites you visit. This was eventually ruled to be illegal, but it was still in force for several years.

These guys have been at it for a while.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive

160. x775+wx[view] [source] 2025-08-10 21:34:56
>>tokai+(OP)
Hello! I made this website. Thank you for sharing.

I appreciate all the feedback, and have implemented a few changes. A few points worth accentuating to avoid any misunderstandings. It is correct that the current proposal indeed is at the Council level, introduced as a high-priority item by the Danish Presidency. It is not yet with the Parliament. This is important as both need to be in agreement for any legislation to be adopted into European law. The first two sections of the website thus summarises the level of support at Council level. The source of this data strictly follows leaked documents from a July 11th 2025 meeting of the Council's Law Enforcement Working Party (LEWP) [0], originally reported by [1] and subsequently summarised by [2]. The next meeting for LEWP is scheduled for September 12th [3], shortly after most MEPs return from vacation.

As noted in another comment, the Council level requires at least 15/27 member states to support it. Should this happen, it would then reach the Parliament, pending approval. However, as support at the Council level seems greater than in previous renditions (supported further by Denmark's insistence and confidence on an expedited vote scheduled for October 14 [4]), it seems prudent to target beyond merely the Council-level. This is the intended goal of the third section of the website.

I see a few comments here suggesting that it would be better to label MEPs yet to respond as "Unknown". I initially decided to have MEPs inherit the position of their government, in part because I (a) wanted to encourage MEPs making a statement and clarifying their stance (while some have in the past, circumstances have changed with this version of the legislation); and (b) wanted to encourage a firm opposition at the Parliament level, ideally before the Council vote. However, I recognise how this can be perceived as being misleading. As such, I have updated the appearance such that pending a response, the label reads "Unknown" while the border indicates the presumed stance of the MEP to be that of their government.

I appreciate the interest and feedback: thank you. Ultimately, the goal with this website really is to raise awareness that the proposed legislation, once again, has been resurrected and is making progress. The attention this thread has garnered is greatly appreciated. As all MEPs have been contacted to confirm their stance, I expect responses to arrive in the coming days and weeks, allowing the overview to soon accurately reflect the personal opinions of each MEP.

In the meantime, I would still encourage you to contact your MEPs such that they are aware of your concerns.

[0] https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/council-eu/preparatory-bo...

[1] https://netzpolitik.org/2025/internes-protokoll-eu-juristen-...

[2] https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/

[3] https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/meetings/mpo/2025/9/law-e...

[4] https://www.parlament.gv.at/dokument/XXVIII/EU/26599/imfname...

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168. layer8+7z[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 21:49:11
>>mettam+Pw
See https://www.chatcontrol.eu/#WhatYouCanDo under “Is your government opposing?”.
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175. Nemo_b+fB[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 22:09:44
>>lucide+al
You mean the Council of the EU. The EUCO is a separate body. SCNR.

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/council-eu/decision-makin...

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177. Nemo_b+nB[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 22:11:20
>>kratom+fi
EDRi. https://edri.org/about-us/victories/
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182. fsflov+OB[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-10 22:15:31
>>Dispos+4g
Consider donating to https://edri.org instead.
192. tomgag+vJ[view] [source] 2025-08-10 23:14:51
>>tokai+(OP)
I'm Italian. On my side, I did what I could do: I emailed Italian politicians explaining why they should reject the proposal. A drop in the ocean, and far from impactful, but if it can change the odds even by an epsilon, why not?

https://gagliardoni.net/#20250805_chatcontrol

Big politics is not my thing, so for me the big effort was: 1) understanding who, among the zillions of politicians we have, could have a direct role in the decisional process and how; 2) searching and collecting the email addresses; and 3) funnily enough, picking the right honorifics (for example, I was not aware that "Onorevole" is reserved only to certain figures in Italian politics).

I shared the resulting effort on my website, in the hope of making life easier for fellow Italians who want to do the same.

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206. jasonf+zR[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 00:42:15
>>KennyB+el
"only about 5% of Catholics in France attend mass regularly, which is roughly 2% of the entire French population"

https://www.europenowjournal.org/2019/10/02/the-catholic-nes...

In other words, your claims say more about you than France.

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223. tomhow+H51[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 03:52:03
>>BiteCo+1r
Please don't berate other community members on HN, no matter how right you are or feel you are. HN is for curious conversation, not battle. Please make an effort to observe the guidelines in future.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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226. croes+h61[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 03:59:43
>>mantas+af
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(organization)
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233. ukprog+J91[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 05:05:17
>>sunaoo+K71
Incorrect

> ... providers to search all private chats, messages, and emails automatically for suspicious content [1]

Even if that were the case, the answer is the Framework phone

[1] https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/

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259. latent+ih1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 06:42:15
>>Aeolun+7e1
Either that or they can't. They did after all have a minister for cybersecurity that had never used a computer.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-46222026

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267. munksb+6n1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 07:49:22
>>elric+6h1
> but the EC does not represent the people, that's the job of MEP

The European Council is the heads of each member state. They are literally the people elected by each nation state domestically. If they don't represent the people, then that means national democracy is broken (which I agree with in cases like the UK) but I'm making a more general point.

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/european-council/

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268. Ransom+In1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 07:55:43
>>Dispos+4g
Why would you expect anything else from the so-called left? Do you honestly believe only the right want power and control?

In my experience the left wants this just as much, if not more than the right.

Right-wing politics is starting to show up again in Europe, this is true, but the left / left-of-center has been in power for a long time and need (at least in their view) to remain in power.

These kinds of laws allow the powerful group to gain more control and remain in power, it took no time at all for the UK version of this law to block videos of heavy-handed policing [0].

The low power group usually doesn't support controls on speech, as they know it will make their rise to power harder. Once power shifts these views inevitably switch.

This has led to the belief, at least in the west, that the right censor and the left are the guardians of free speech - because it was true and people want to believe the world hasn't changed (nobody like to admit that they've become the bad guys).

This also leads people make this mistake of believing that politics is a line. It's not, it's a horseshoe.

In the middle is the vast majority of people that just want to be left alone, and want to leave others alone. At both edges there are loud, politically active, sociopaths that want power and control to protect and deify their own in-group, while, criminalizing and demonizing the out-group.

It's why, when looking at history, the right-wing fascists and the left-wing communists, seem to want totally opposite things, but end up with very similar policies and outcomes (illegal political parties, proscribed groups, concentration camps and genocide).

[0] https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14945805/Online-Saf...

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280. Electr+at1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 08:53:42
>>fc417f+H71
We already have standards:

PICS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_for_Internet_Content_...

POWDER https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_for_Web_Description_R...

ASACP/RTA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Sites_Advocatin...

What seem to lack is the will power to use them. Or after seeing in the linked site:

  *EU politicians exempt themselves from this surveillance under "professional secrecy" rules. They get privacy. You and your family do not. Demand fairness. 
they really want mass surveillance for the plebs even by creating a weak point for enemies. To hell not just with rights but also defence. So any excuse will do.
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295. nicksl+tB1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 10:12:13
>>Teever+pq
> Where are the celebrities and public figures taking a stand against this?

Many of them support it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorn_(organization)#Notable_s...

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299. nicksl+qC1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 10:20:10
>>pakita+tu
I don't know about scanning (that's the goal of this proposal - ChatControl - including scanning of storage*) but ProtectEU involves creating hardware and software backdoors.

* https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/ , see the table "The Chat Control 2.0 proposal in detail"

Technical experts call on Commissioner Virkkunen for a seat on the table of the European Commission’s Technology Roadmap on encryption

https://edri.org/our-work/technical-experts-call-on-virkkune...

Concluding report of the High-Level Group on access to data for effective law enforcement

https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/document/download/4802e306...

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300. nicksl+wC1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 10:20:46
>>cbeach+xo
I don't know about scanning (that's the goal of this proposal - ChatControl - including scanning of storage*) but ProtectEU involves creating hardware and software backdoors.

* https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/ , see the table "The Chat Control 2.0 proposal in detail"

Technical experts call on Commissioner Virkkunen for a seat on the table of the European Commission’s Technology Roadmap on encryption

https://edri.org/our-work/technical-experts-call-on-virkkune...

Concluding report of the High-Level Group on access to data for effective law enforcement

https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/document/download/4802e306...

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306. nicksl+pD1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 10:30:46
>>mantas+af
Context: https://digitalcourage.social/@echo_pbreyer/1114997695267549...
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307. rsynno+wD1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 10:32:29
>>Telema+ok
Yes; they could amend the definitely-not-a-constitution (for branding/eurosceptic-appeasement reasons, the EU constitution was rebranded as the Lisbon treaty before adoption). Arguably such a right may exist already and this legislation might find itself on a collision course with the ECJ if it passed (notably the ECJ nuked _another_ intrusive law, back in the day: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive).
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312. nicksl+TD1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 10:37:13
>>lostms+dq
You cannot fight this with technology. What will you do when they make connecting to instant messager servers without scanning illegal? VPN? They are already going after VPNs.

"VPN services may soon become a new target of EU lawmakers after being deemed a "key challenge""

https://www.techradar.com/vpn/vpn-privacy-security/vpn-servi...

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314. rsynno+fE1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 10:40:53
>>cobbzi+kg
Hrm. Remember this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chip

Ultimately the US government's key escrow fixation largely faded away, and it was never clear whether it would stand up in the courts, but it still shows up from time to time.

It's quite possible that this would conflict with the EU's can't-believe-it's-not-a-constitution (the Lisbon treaty) if passed, too; for a prior example see the defunct data retention directive, which was nuked by the ECJ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive

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315. nicksl+iE1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 10:41:33
>>rkomor+nw
> The idea isn't to break encryption

That comes later with ProtectEU.

"Technical experts call on Commissioner Virkkunen for a seat on the table of the European Commission’s Technology Roadmap on encryption"

https://edri.org/our-work/technical-experts-call-on-virkkune...

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317. nicksl+yE1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 10:45:39
>>renewi+981
The company lobbying for the proposal is a US surveillance company called Thorn. They have correctly identified that the EU is weak and you can just say "children" and politicians will agree to anything however. Even if it doesn't achieve anything.

https://balkaninsight.com/2023/09/25/who-benefits-inside-the...

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326. uyzstv+MF1[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 11:01:17
>>IshKeb+dB1
"In talking to the subjects, researchers discovered that high exposure to pornography videos apparently resulted in lower responsivity and an increased need for more extreme, specialized or “k+++y” material to become aroused."[1]

This effect can be clearly seen in that pornography websites promote this extreme, vile and obscure content, such as incest, exhibitionism, and even depictions of non-consensual interaction and physical abuse.[2] Obviously, these matters have no place in a healthy relationship, and it's pretty basic psychology that regular consumption of this content causes the normalization of such practices, especially in impressionable teenagers whom do not yet have legitimate experience in healthy, normal relationships.

A majority of adults watches pornography.[3] And we're dealing with a massive loneliness epidemic under younger generations, together with a significant rise in "hook-up culture" over forming serious relationships. Coincidence?

[1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5039517/

[2] Just go to one of those websites. I'm not going to do that, neither am I going to link to that here.

[3] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1402222/us-adults-pornog...

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392. Lasokk+cl2[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 15:40:21
>>torgin+GJ1
https://ageverification.dev/

"The European Commission is developing a harmonized, EU-wide approach to age verification, accompanied by a comprehensive age verification blueprint that is intended to facilitate practical adoption across all Member States and can be customised to the national context. Built upon the robust European Digital Identity Wallet framework, this user-friendly and privacy-preserving age verification solution enables individuals to demonstrate their eligibility for age-restricted online services, such as those restricted to adults, without disclosing more personal information than absolutely necessary"

So basically, the intention is to provide a solution where users do not need an account or to provide their passports to BigBootyXXX.com. The site just asks if this session or user is of legal age and the age verification system will respond with a TRUE/FALSE

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411. kratom+dp3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 21:12:33
>>kratom+fi
Kind of answering my own question, but in Germany there seem to be:

https://freiheitsrechte.org/

https://chat-kontrolle.eu/

Can anyone comment on the reputability of these initiatives?

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414. _ache_+ty3[view] [source] [discussion] 2025-08-11 22:17:29
>>forty+bD
Can you explain a little why it's obvious? Last time I checked, LFI was for and EELV against.

https://mepwatch.eu/9/vote.html?v=167712&country=fr

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