zlacker

The Philips Hue ecosystem is collapsing

submitted by pictur+(OP) on 2023-09-26 23:22:15 | 963 points 707 comments
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4. xattt+33[view] [source] 2023-09-26 23:39:25
>>pictur+(OP)
Another plug for Hubitat: https://hubitat.com/

Does Zwave and Zigbee with Matter on the way at some point. HomeKit integration is in beta right now.

My fear is that Philips will do something stupid by pushing a firmware to the bulbs to lock folks into only using their hubs. Or maybe change colour reporting to some annoying method that won’t allow for accurate colour on a non-Hue hub.

The enshittification continues.

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46. LeifCa+t6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-26 23:59:56
>>hippic+f4
You don't have to go AliExpress, but you can. HomeAssistant can run a stupid number of integrations:

https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/#all

...including all the big names like Hue. Nest. Ring. Yale. Schlage. Ikea. HomeKit. Plex. Sonos. Alexa. Sure, you can integrate arbitrary digital/MQTT/Zigbee/BLE stuff you find on AliExpress for pennies, or you can buy the name-brand stuff from big box stores.

You're not locked into just the Hue ecosystem just because you have their bulbs. I don't understand why HomeKit doesn't just talk to the bulbs instead of allowing Phillips to force you to go through their hub. This is on Apple for not supporting the lights directly.

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57. posnet+U6[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 00:02:35
>>hk1337+Z5
It can be detected if your adversaries are clever enough: https://lukespademan.com/blog/the-dangers-of-curlbash/
65. robswc+O7[view] [source] 2023-09-27 00:07:27
>>pictur+(OP)
Not to high-jack but I too would like to lament (and hopefully humor HN) about "smart home" gadgets and the companies behind them.

I bought a "Cync" bulb from GE and had to reset it, I couldn't for the life of me. This is their official video on how to do it:

https://youtu.be/1BB6wj6RyKo

You have to repeat a sequence with near perfect timing, that takes about a minute straight. Since we moved, I had to do this for 4 lights and wanted to tear my hair out, lol.

I've found that for whatever reason, "smart home" stuff is some of the worst designed and managed products out there.

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73. Rapzid+q8[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 00:10:51
>>karlsh+h3
Yeah, the industry has settled on it's fine with some caveats.

Even Microsoft has this published for the dotnet install tool:

  curl -sSL https://dot.net/v1/dotnet-install.sh | bash /dev/stdin <additional install-script args>
Microsoft.. The only company I have ever heard mention CRIME and BREACH and invokes their specter in .Net to do awesome things like.. Not let you enable websocket compression in SignalR.
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88. perihe+d9[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 00:14:53
>>seanp2+G5
Consider something like Firefox' Reader mode, and impose your own CSS layout.

Here's my current setup (multiple narrow columns—the OP fits entirely in one screen, looks like a newspaper).

>>37595128

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105. bombca+da[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 00:20:52
>>jrockw+k8
This is basically https://xkcd.com/1200/

Anyone who really complains about curl | sudo is just doing it for nerd points, because I guarantee you they happily install all sorts of other software without "vetting" it.

And if someone caught someone doing trickery it'd be big news.

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121. tzs+db[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 00:26:30
>>Waterl+J4
Even if you don't review it before running it, after

  $ curl https://whatever/foo.sh > foo.sh
  $ sh foo.sh
if something goes terribly wrong you can examine foo.sh to try to figure out what happened and how to fix it. Even if foo.sh managed to delete itself you can just grab it again.

After

  $ curl https://whatever/foo.sh | sh
if something goes wrong and you then try

  $ curl https://whatever/foo.sh > foo.sh
to get a copy of the script to examine a malicious server can tell that you aren't piping to a shell [1] and give a non-malicious script.

Since it takes an insignificant amount of effort to defend against this why not get in the habit of doing it?

[1] >>17636032

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142. bombca+lc[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 00:33:51
>>cooper+q9
The AV forums used to call it the "wife acceptance factor" but it's a huge reality.

https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2001/11/19/the-jim-saga.-...

And having it extend to have to piss by the light of your cell phone (just before you drop it in the toilet) because you're groggy and can't remember the right incantation to get lights on ...

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150. Spivak+Oc[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 00:36:16
>>bdamm+08
> I'm not so sure it can be simple, reliable, and future proof, at least not in the consumer space.

Depending on your definition of future it's very possible. Find some devices classified as "Local Push" or "Local Polling" https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2016/02/12/classifying-th.... Make a VLAN with no internet access in your router and put them (and HA) on it. Never update the firmware (why would you, they work don't they?), connect them to HA and pin the version of it and your plug-ins. Don't let the devices talk directly to HA if you're extra paranoid.

Update at your leisure or never.

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170. bombca+2e[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 00:44:53
>>nemo44+M5
I agree - I'm a few steps away from going full luddite and running only dimmable incandescents and kerosene lanterns.

https://www.sevarg.net/tag/lights/

What's the old joke about technology?

    Tech enthusiasts: My entire house is smart. 

    Tech workers: The only piece of technology in my house is a printer and I keep a gun next to it so I can shoot it if it makes a noise I don't recognize.
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206. XorNot+Hf[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 00:56:14
>>Spivak+Oc
I've bought a bunch of stuff from these guys: https://athom.tech/

Their model is shipping ESP devices flashed with open source firmwares. They still go on their own firewalled wifi network, but this is about as future-proof as I can imagine: the software is open source, the updates can be run locally, the parts they're made of are actually pretty simple PCBs you could get a fab run of your own done if you wanted to.

In terms of "future" proofing, everything I've installed I've been putting in accessible junction boxes well labelled - electricity isn't going to change, so as long as it fits in a box, I'll always have the option to replace the hardware (if you have light switches with a neutral wire then you're basically set).

I wouldn't say "simple" per se but that's really more on the "you need a box running some type of home automation stuff". I suspect simple enough for the consumer would be something which came with it's own wifi AP and pre-configured mesh routers so the IoT network would start out intrinsically separated.

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207. tpmone+Lf[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 00:56:40
>>kiwija+s3
If you're ok with wifi protocols, Kaufman[1] makes bulbs, switches and plugs that all run ESPHome out of the box. I have some bulbs and one of the plugs and they all work nicely.

[1]: https://kaufha.com

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208. Daz1+Of[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 00:56:55
>>castle+xe
Dunno this looks pretty safe to me https://www.lighting.philips.co.uk/consumer/p/led-bulb/87186...
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246. seanp2+Bi[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 01:14:34
>>kubric+i6
I wonder why, then, HN comments don't adhere to that: .comment { max-width:1215px } in news.css here on my system, which feels very readable and reasonable at around 200 chr per line at 100% scaling. I also disagree with the 70 chr recommendation: with this article, literally the entire body is limited to a very small max width which takes up between a quarter to a third of the screen on two different computers I use at home. It's a distractingly bad experience to read, so much so that I went in and modified that CSS rule just to get through it. 1200 felt right and made it a much more visually pleasing square, rather than a thin column in a sea of stark gray.

There are actual standards for this, but they're more like recommendations, and ironically https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-audio-cont... recommends "Width is no more than 80 characters or glyphs (40 if CJK)." while the first line of the paragraph explaining why is 112 characters wide and looks pretty much fine / comfortable to read on my screens.

While there are psychological reasons to use shorter line lengths, as this SO answer details the whole 80 column width thing goes all the way back to punchcards in 1928 https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/1486...

Edit: here's what HN comments would look like with 65-70chr per line: https://i.imgur.com/yeMF6IY.png vs default with 1215px per the news.css rule: https://i.imgur.com/IXNyhfL.png .

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273. eigen+Ck[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 01:27:25
>>twism+Kh
back in April, Google announced cancellation of several home products. dont know if they sent an email but they have a blog post.

> starting April 8, 2024 support will stop for Nest Secure

> stop support for Dropcam starting April 8, 2024.

> we will officially end Works with Nest as of September 29, 2023.

https://www.googlenestcommunity.com/t5/Blog/An-update-for-ou...

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282. philis+kl[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 01:32:34
>>koolba+sk
Grandma's still rocking the automation through the power lines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm33KB2Th9M&t=680s

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304. jyrkes+qn[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 01:45:13
>>cybera+W7
+1 for the HUZBZB-1. I waxed more poetically about my setup already[1], but I've had that little guy for over 4 years, it was plug-and-play on day 1, and I've never had a single issue with a Zigbee or Z-Wave device. (Wi-Fi? don't even get me started...)

And yeah, it'll be another year or two before Matter/Threads really starts picking up steam. I'll just pick up a new dongle when there's 10 of 'em in that same timeframe.

(Disclaimer: my house is 800 sqft and I don't share any walls with neighbors. Zigbee is SUPPOSED to be mesh and Just Work assuming you have enough devices, but I can't speak from experience on that front.)

[1] >>37667266

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316. AlotOf+lo[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 01:50:52
>>mostly+Gh
Philips doesn't make lightbulbs, only healthcare products now. The lighting brand was spun out into a new company called Signify [0] several years ago as part of Philips' persistent goal to divest themselves of anything that could be considered remotely innovative or forward thinking.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signify_N.V.

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322. pseudo+Uo[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 01:54:24
>>shermo+h5
Maybe not 100%, but all the ones I have tried have worked with tuya-convert. https://tasmota.github.io/docs/Tuya-Convert/
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358. mlucie+Mr[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 02:14:37
>>akira2+Fo
You can be, quite easily - see Title 8, 3321b2 (a PA law that lets PA municipalities punish building ordinance violations via criminal process) - most states have some version of this.

https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?...

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369. _James+ps[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 02:19:03
>>xattt+33
With the most recent 2.3.6 release of Hubitat HomeKit support is no longer in beta.

https://community.hubitat.com/t/release-2-3-6-available/1247...

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397. mr_toa+zv[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 02:39:24
>>Waterl+Bd
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetlight_effect
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419. adrian+0x[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 02:49:46
>>sarche+9a
Oh hey, fellow Miku friend. I was _furious_ when they first announced their bankruptcy plan. We supposedly paid a hefty premium for hardware that enables onboard breathing monitoring, and suddenly they're pretending they have to ship it to the cloud to do some magic? Nah, tear it down, and turns out we did pay extra for hardware.

Our Miku's use a Novelda (fka Xethru) UWB sensor SoC, specifically designed for human presence monitoring and, drumroll, breathing and heartbeat. Specifically they use an X4: https://novelda.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/x4_datasheet_...

I likely won't have time, what with the kids and all, but I'm going to give it the old college try to tear into this thing and craft some firmware so we can actually keep things from being a paperweight. It blows my mind this isn't just table stakes with IoT crap these days, but here we are.

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421. autoex+8x[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 02:50:40
>>hnrepo+Bs
I don't doubt that you'll get better customization options with apps, but you aren't doomed to a life devoid of color without them.

We've got some colored lighting in the form of plain old LED strips with wired controllers, we've had a couple old fashioned single color bulbs at times, and there are other options like this: https://www.amazon.com/GE-Lighting-93100205-Replacement-Spec...

I'd really like to see something like openrgb (openrgb.org) for light bulbs though.

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429. tga+xx[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 02:53:58
>>hnrepo+Bs
That's not true, Zigbee remotes can pair directly to lightbulbs (including Philips Hue) and control the color. Example: https://rgbgenie.com/?product=rgbgenie-rgbw-remote-zigbee

Also, there are tons of cheap colored lightbulbs controlled directly by an infrared remote. Example: https://www.amazon.com/Light-Color-Changing-2700K-White/dp/B...

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447. autoex+Kz[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 03:11:16
>>hacker+dw
> Define "getting screwed over". For instance, I do not care about Google Maps using my location data in aggregate to improve traffic predictions.

This guy didn't care about his location data going to google either: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/google-tracked-his-bike...

He got screwed over big time. Thousands of dollars, just to avoid a jail cell.

There are uses of personal data that can be harmless, but once that data is in the hands of someone else you don't have any say in how it is used (harmless or otherwise) and even if the people using your data today aren't doing anything abusive with it, that data will live forever and you never know who will end up with it in the future or what they will do with it.

If the alternative is a subscription (assuming that actually means your data is not handed over to someone else) then at least you'll know what the cost of a product/service is, and you'll only pay for it while you're subscribed.

If you pay with your data, once it's out of your hands it can be used against you again and again at any time so you never get to stop "paying" and can never know what it will ultimately cost you.

As another example of getting screwed over, I've got a family member who bought a bluray of some movie in a shop, and then when she got home to play it found that her player refused because of DRM. The player wasn't connected to the internet and it needed to connect to a remote server in order to get permission to play her legally purchased media on her legally purchased player. She didn't understand what was happening and called me. The player didn't have wifi. The company sold a special USB wifi adapter at an insane price, otherwise she'd either have to move her furniture to take the player upstairs next to her modem and connect it physically, or run a very very long cable across her entire house.

The next time she needed a bluray player, she avoided the old brand, but didn't even check to see if it had wifi capability before buying (she got lucky and it did).

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480. johnma+BD[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 03:38:13
>>rpgwai+Vz
I don't think that's really fair - the recommended way to run Home Assistant is to run HA OS (on a VM or dedicated machine, like a Raspberry Pi), or to run it in a Docker container.

The "Supervised" installation (i.e. installing Home Assistant on top of an existing Linux install) is doable, but not preferred.

https://www.home-assistant.io/installation/

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503. Flammy+rG[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 03:57:26
>>fragme+dg
That is one thing Wyze doesn't have: A dimmer.

I use: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N106YN7 then connect the Leviton dimmer to Google Assistant for voice routines crossing different app gardens.

I don't use colored lights, but you could use smart bulbs or fixed colored lights controlled via smart plugs depending on your use case. Or just get something with built in multi color, like LED strips.

There are some LED strips that maintain programming thru powering off, just like how oil radiators with physical switches maintain settings thru powering off. These devices work great with smart plugs, and in the case of an oil radiator can be hooked up to a smart thermostat for a cheap man's smart home, fully portable for moving or apartment swapping.

I can do a longer write up if you're curious.

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519. pierat+ZH[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 04:11:34
>>functi+Qd
> My porch light turns on 30 minutes after sunset and off before sunrise. It's under a roof so I would have needed to either replace the switch with one of those fancy ones, or installed a photocell somewhere else. But it was just a couple automations added to the config file to get that functionality.

Eww, that's gross, especially for all the migrating birds and wildlife, just so you can have a terrible light on outside when you don't need it at all.

Basically you're harming wildlife https://birdcast.info/

And you're worsening the environment with needless and completely unutilized light pollution. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_pollution

Wow.

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520. edward+fI[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 04:13:01
>>dylan6+GD
Tom Scott did a video about this a few years ago.

https://youtu.be/dt22yWYX64w

529. Paywal+tJ[view] [source] 2023-09-27 04:22:32
>>pictur+(OP)
is this where aliexpress comes in hand?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004718007133.html

One of many products speaking both protocols for just 10/20$

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575. crical+PP[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 05:16:24
>>LeafIt+cp
Not the GP, but I've been tinkering with HA on a Pi4 and use a Sonoff one on a long USB cable (per the manufacturer's recommendation to avoid interference from the Pi). It's the EZSP based one, https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0B6P22YJC

They do another one on a different chipset too; the EZSP one is the newer hotness, and so far unlike the older model, there's no firmware update to flash.

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577. moonte+5Q[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 05:18:24
>>aquova+ex
Of course you can. Use Zigbee2MQTT and buy one of the supported adapters (don’t get IKEA) and all your Zigbee devices will work. No cloud needed: https://www.zigbee2mqtt.io/guide/adapters/
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578. petre+bQ[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 05:18:59
>>LeafIt+cp
Get one with a big external antenna and use a 30…50 cm USB extender cable to distance it from other 2.4Ghz RF sources.

https://sonoff.tech/product/gateway-and-sensors/sonoff-zigbe...

579. dang+qQ[view] [source] 2023-09-27 05:21:33
>>pictur+(OP)
Recent and related:

Philips Hue will soon force users to create an account - >>37594377 - Sept 2023 (314 comments)

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592. qwerto+0U[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 05:59:50
>>LeafIt+cp
I use a "SONOFF Zigbee 3.0 USB Dongle Plus ZigBee 3.x.0 TI CC2652P + CP2102N Coordinator" with a long USB cable.

As user cricalix points out, there's also a version with an EFR32MG21, I'm not sure how they compare nowadays, see discussion on GitHub: https://github.com/Koenkk/zigbee2mqtt/discussions/14261

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599. 783928+pZ[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 06:53:40
>>dylan6+77
Checkout: [1]

I am using Adaptive Lighting with Home Assistant & Zigbee2MQTT + Hue bulbs.

My home has never felt this "smart" before. Every time my lights turns on I find the color and brightness to be perfect.

[1]: https://github.com/basnijholt/adaptive-lighting

611. rcarmo+k91[view] [source] 2023-09-27 08:20:28
>>pictur+(OP)
This is why I went the zigbee2mqtt + Node-RED + homebridge route. But I run them under https://github.com/piku with pinned versions from NPM, so that there’s no weird install scripts.

(although to be fair I would ditch everything written in JavaScript if there were suitable replacements - alas, there aren’t)

Other than that, I’ve been very careful to only pick ZigBee devices that would work with an OSS coordinator and that would either bridge automatically to HomeKit or that I could translate events for via Node-RED (over the years Node-RED has become more of a dashboard than a translator, which is great).

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621. neop1x+3e1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 08:56:00
>>qwerto+x9
I am using the same setup: sonoff zigbee plus dongle + zigbee2mqtt + home assistant.

Fully local solution with no 3rd party clouds, EULAs, proprietary hubs or propruetary apps or restrictions. Compatible with almost any zigbee device. A subset of tested and well-known devices is listed at their website https://www.zigbee2mqtt.io/supported-devices/.

Recommending to everyone. It can be set up as 3 docker containers (zigbee2mqtt, mosquitto, home assistant), for example in docker compose. Or there are also ready-made images of Home Assistant with Supervisor GUI management for people not wanting to fiddle with that manually.

Node-Red is another great addon to the setup if you want to configure automations graphically by joining nodes together. Far more powerful than any proprietary solutions.

624. ay+Tj1[view] [source] 2023-09-27 09:36:32
>>pictur+(OP)
FWIW, I had similar experiences twice:

First with IKEA when they changed the lights on-power-up behavior on upgrade. This resulted in a hub becoming a 25 euro cc2531 stick on raspberry pi + Zigbee2mqtt and HomeBridge for integration with HomeKit.

And the past February Apple decided my Apple TV 3 was not good enough for being a home hub, and botched the entire home in the process, while I was away.

So now the whole HomeKit nonsense is out and instead there is a lightweight Rust app with a simple text file config doing both the orchestration and providing the light html UI.

https://github.com/ayourtch/homegui - in case anybody finds it useful.

As a bonus the users in the household praise the new system being much more responsive..

I am missing “turn all the lights off when last person leaves”, and full editing the colors via GUI, but not enough to bother to implement it :-)

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642. calgoo+qV1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 13:53:13
>>jletie+mA
I have used the Zigbee2mqtt quite well with Hue and a USB dongle: https://www.zigbee2mqtt.io/
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643. taneq+eW1[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 13:57:07
>>dghlsa+ks
Power delivery is the worst, but for a long time it was super random whether you'd get USB2 or USB3 speed, wait sorry USB3 High Speed or USB3 Full Speed or whatever they renamed it to. And then there's the confusion between USB 1/2/3/etc. and A/B/mini-A/mini-B/micro-A/micro-B/C connectors, and the fact that it requires a half-page infographic to just sum up the latter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Connector_type_quick_refer...). Overall I feel that the USB Working Group, wait the USB Promoter Group, wait- who even are they? should take a vow of penance and refer to themselves as the SB Group until they sort this out.
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662. petre+rz2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 16:29:45
>>kiwija+s3
KNX for new buildings. But it's quite expensive, like $25 per portand there's a maximum on 64 devices on a twisted pair line. You can have up to 15 lines on a backbone with line repeates (= area) and then max 15 areas with area couplers. There are also KNX to IP routers.

https://www.knx.org/knx-en/for-your-home/

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664. Spivak+GB2[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 16:37:47
>>bdamm+X31
> Right, and then have local services interacting with no cloud support, or phone integration.

Huh? I have the Homeassiant app on my phone and I proxy the web interface to a VPC so it's accessible to me everywhere.

This was never intended to be a solution for your grandpa. This is a solution for nerds who want to build a future proof setup with consumer equipment (Phillips smart bulbs vs. commercial lighting like https://www.crestronlighting.com/)

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682. steven+nM3[view] [source] [discussion] 2023-09-27 21:46:23
>>brainb+jE
It's perfectly suitable and it looks like one of the better out-of-the box solutions out there that respect user privacy. If I don't have any SBCs and just want something that works without fiddling, I'd likely go for Hubitat too.

That said if you're up for fiddling, something like https://www.amazon.ca/Waveshare-VisionFive2-Processor-Integr... will provide much more oopmh (and it's RISC-V) with 4GB ram and m2 slot, at $100 CAD, with mainline kernel support (so any USB devices will just work). Grab a zigbee USB + SBC like that, and you'd be able to run much more on your hub that just a gateway for your devices.

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