zlacker

Feds arrest couple, seize $3.6B in hacked Bitcoin funds

submitted by mikeyo+(OP) on 2022-02-08 16:50:15 | 698 points 852 comments
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1. mikeyo+6[view] [source] 2022-02-08 16:50:46
>>mikeyo+(OP)
> The Justice Department announced Tuesday it had seized more than $3.6 billion in bitcoin allegedly stolen as part of a 2016 hack of Bitfinex, saying authorities have also arrested and charged a husband and wife in New York for allegedly trying to launder the cryptocurrency fortune.

> Officials said Ilya Lichtenstein, 34, and his wife, Heather Morgan, 31, were arrested on charges of conspiring to launder money. They are accused of trying to launder 119,754 bitcoin that were stolen after a hacker breached Bitfinex, a cryptocurrency exchange, and initiated more than 2,000 unauthorized transactions. Prosecutors said the bitcoin was sent to a digital wallet controlled by Lichtenstein.

From the actual charging statement (https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1470186/downl...), the Feds have more details and fascinating traces through the various methods which the accused laundered the funds. Raises the question of whether they would've attracted so much attention if it were "only" a $70M hack instead of the multibillion dollar one due to BTC appreciation.

> In or around August 2016, a hacker breached Victim VCE’s security systems and infiltrated its infrastructure. While inside Victim VCE’s network, the hacker was able to initiate over 2,000 unauthorized BTC transactions, in which approximately 119,754 BTC was transferred from Victim VCE’s wallets to an outside wallet. At the time of the breach, 119,754 BTC was valued at approximately $71 million. Due to the increase in the value6 of BTC since the breach, the stolen funds are valued at over $4.5 billion as of February 2022.

2. danso+T4[view] [source] 2022-02-08 17:10:48
>>mikeyo+(OP)
The statement of facts is linked to from the press release, and describes generally how the Feds were able to trace the stolen funds (they found a file listing private keys, after gaining access to the suspect's cloud storage) https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1470186/downl...

> The 2017 transfers notwithstanding, the majority of the stolen funds remained in Wallet 1CGA4s from August 2016 until January 31, 2022. On January 31, 2022, law enforcement gained access to Wallet 1CGA4s by decrypting a file saved to LICHTENSTEIN’s cloud storage account, which had been obtained pursuant to a search warrant. The file contained a list of 2,000 virtual currency addresses, along with corresponding private keys.

> ...The connection among the VCE 1 accounts was further confirmed upon reviewing a spreadsheet saved to LICHTENSTEIN’s cloud storage account. The spreadsheet included the log-in information for accounts at various virtual currency exchanges and a notation regarding the status of the accounts

> ...Lichtenstein Email 2 was held at a U.S.-based provider that offered email as well as cloud storage services, among other products. In 2021, agents obtained a copy of the contents of the cloud storage account pursuant to a search warrant. Upon reviewing the contents of the account, agents confirmed that the account was used by LICHTENSTEIN. However, a significant portion of the files were encrypted

5. albrol+l5[view] [source] 2022-02-08 17:12:20
>>mikeyo+(OP)
fwiw, it appears one of the named here is a YC Alum: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=il https://www.linkedin.com/in/unrealdutch/
6. rasz+M5[view] [source] 2022-02-08 17:14:01
>>mikeyo+(OP)
"Today Ilya Lichtenstein is the co-founder of the Y Combinator backed Mix Rank,"

One of the first Google results for the names returns 'Get your first $1 million in enterprise sales with zero marketing spend' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuIr5IFQ9Xg

Heather R Morgan

Serial entrepreneur SaaS Investor Razzlekhan = Surrealist Artist, Rapper & Fashion Designer with synesthesia Also Forbes writer

https://www.inc.com/heather-r-morgan/dont-hire-a-salesperson...

"As I build a sales team for my latest software startup, Endpass"

Endpass "Bringing you the delightful and secure Ethereum wallet that's easy enough for grandma to use."

Wait, so did Feds nab them for running Ethereum wallet startup and claim $3B in client wallets as theirs? Or did the pair start Ethereum wallet company to wash stolen coints?

30. openha+a8[view] [source] 2022-02-08 17:22:56
>>mikeyo+(OP)
It seems that Tornado Cash (https://tornado.cash/) could have been used to launder the funds. I wonder if:

- Laundering happened before Tornado Cash existed, so Tornado Cash was not used

- They used something like Tornado Cash, but the funds were still traceable

49. mgh2+Ma[view] [source] 2022-02-08 17:32:18
>>mikeyo+(OP)
Dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30260987
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54. runeks+9b[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 17:33:22
>>loceng+E6
There is no solution because you would end up punishing innocent people. E.g. if a thief buys a car with their proceeds then it's not fair to punish the car dealership by confiscating the originally-stolen coins. This was decided in Scotland in 1749, cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawfurd_v_The_Royal_Bank
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64. throwa+4c[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 17:36:01
>>knorke+Ca
Possession is probably a better word than ownership, sure.

In the same way that if someone takes your cash into their possession, they might not have legal ownership, but now they have to somehow be involved in its' future transfer (even if that's like, handcuffing them and forcing them to hand it over).

In a cryptographic system you need the key in order to do things. Whether you think it's good or bad to apply that principle to the concept of money is orthogonal to the ground reality of how it actually works.

The original Bitcoin whitepaper explicitly refers to itself as a peer to peer electronic cash system (https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf). It's the 7th word in. It's designed to operate in a cash-like manner as opposed to a referential (credit-like? not sure what the term is for this) as in a bank ledger or similar.

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68. mdoms+Lc[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 17:39:31
>>loceng+E6
Some organisations already have such systems in place. Take for example this Redditor who lost hundreds of thousands of dollars because someone some time in the past pushed his coins through a mixer.

https://www.reddit.com/r/blockfi/comments/skxiei/blockfi_hor...

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74. gruez+Md[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 17:43:22
>>throwa+La
>2. Supposed to be, but we all know that folks are sitting in jail right now for longer periods of time for stealing less.

Example?

The US sentencing guidelines[1] considers multiple factors other than "value stolen"

https://www.ussc.gov/guidelines/2021-guidelines-manual-annot...

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80. X6S1x6+7e[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 17:44:39
>>Alexan+Ub
There's a lot of evidence in the statement_of_facts however it's unclear how much of it can only be reconstructed with the private keys. Interested parties should really look to what was known to grant the search warrant.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1470186/downl...

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82. rjbwor+ae[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 17:45:05
>>duxup+oc
I'm not invested in crypto or really at all interested in it. That said, my mentor seems pretty excited about it and is pretty heavily invested as of the past few months. I advised him to do something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamir's_Secret_Sharing and distribute it across a wide number of storage mechanisms, physical, digital, and custodial. For instance, in google drive, in drop box, in a bank safety deposit box, engraved in a gold bar buried in your yard, in your house safe, etc.

Why anyone with a significant amount of crypto assets isn't going to insane extremes in terms of secrecy and durability is beyond me.

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86. knownj+Je[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 17:47:18
>>openha+a8
Another possibility is Ironfish(https://ironfish.network/), but I don't know how much liquidity there exists in either of these. I don't think you could launder/hide $4bn through either of these. Perhaps slowly over a long period of time.
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104. shagie+Gg[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 17:54:09
>>duxup+wf
Hashicorp Vault uses it.

https://learn.hashicorp.com/tutorials/vault/rekeying-and-rot...

> In order to prevent one person from having complete access to the system, Vault employs Shamir's Secret Sharing Algorithm. Under this process, a secret is divided into a subset of parts such that a subset of those parts are needed to reconstruct the original secret. Vault makes heavy use of this algorithm as part of the unsealing process.

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144. soco+lk[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 18:08:26
>>Alexan+Ub
This would have happened: https://xkcd.com/538/
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170. paulpa+gn[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 18:19:57
>>albrol+l5
This is just unreal. this guy was living a double life of being the greatest criminal ever. So among our community was a $4 billion hacker, just nonchalantly posting.

I don't think he will be commenting anytime soon again if this really is him

https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=il

like your neighbor being a serial killer or something

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175. aksss+rn[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 18:20:26
>>paulpa+yk
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ruffo

$25,000 bounty seems pretty small, considering.

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176. Gasp0d+un[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 18:20:49
>>14+x8
https://www.useapassphrase.com/
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182. Mauran+9o[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 18:23:49
>>Alexan+bf
> If you consider every mixed_cash as bad, you would be forced to assume that the entire cryptocurrency is bad bec of how the money flows.

That's exactly what's happening, according to this page that was on the HN front page a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30224637

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230. evdubs+Bt[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 18:46:39
>>ratg13+R6
After this hack, Bitfinex account holders took a haircut (30% or so) and were given tokens representing the remainder of their dollar-denominated account balances. Those tokens were paid in full in 2017ish.

Later, the UK, Portugal, and Poland seized $1B or so of Bitfinex customer funds due to the funds being delivered by Crypto Capital Corp who was found to be engaged in money laundering. Bitfinex issued LEO tokens to make up for that asset seizure, and have a clause that if the 2016 stolen bitcoins were recovered, they'd be used to retire the LEO tokens. That's why LEO has greatly increased in value recently. https://cryptowat.ch/charts/BITFINEX:LEO-USD?period=1d

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240. dcist+5v[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 18:52:04
>>tiffan+Hn
check out the affidavit accompanying the criminal complaint: https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1470186/downl...

yes, they're legally presumed innocent but they have a LOT of 'splaining to do.

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247. avrion+qw[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 18:58:11
>>colinm+h5
Here is the most likely approach: https://xkcd.com/538/
250. 300bps+ax[view] [source] 2022-02-08 19:01:02
>>mikeyo+(OP)
The hack occurred 5.5 years ago. The Federal statute of limitations on Grand Theft/Larceny is 5 years. Is this why they are charged with Conspiracy to Commit Money Laundring and not charged with the actual theft?

Lichtenstein and Morgan are charged with conspiracy to commit money laundering

If so, this means that (outside tax obligations) they may have gotten away with it essentially by sitting on the money doing nothing for 5 years and then openly transferred it to themselves. Since they took actions that were meant to launder the money, they opened themselves up to the money laundering charges on their own.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/3282

This is similar to many financial regulations where you can have completely legally obtained money but if you deposit $9,000 followed by depositing $1,000 thereby avoiding a CTR notification to the government required for a $10,000 deposit, you're guilty of "structuring" your deposits.

https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/CTRPamphle...

280. jupblb+MA[view] [source] 2022-02-08 19:14:47
>>mikeyo+(OP)
And to think ~10 years ago it was subject of a joke to call police because of theft of fictional online goods [1].

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSyjcib_Fps

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285. localh+GB[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 19:17:57
>>pdog+vq
She's also a rapper, and not a very good one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DIuPPmY9mw
291. neonat+gD[view] [source] 2022-02-08 19:24:38
>>mikeyo+(OP)
http://web.archive.org/web/20220208165810/https://www.washin...

https://archive.is/IcdPK

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292. grumpl+hD[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 19:24:40
>>tiffan+Hn
The federal government has a ridiculously high conviction rate: 99.96% [1]. They basically only bring the case if they have everything they need to convict.

1. https://www.bhlawfirm.com/blog/2021/05/the-federal-convictio....

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294. 0xFree+zD[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 19:25:52
>>dcist+Ju
il on May 15, 2013

>As the anarchists and idealists on HN will soon learn, the decentralized nature of Bitcoin won't make a difference if anyone transmitting it is in violation of federal law.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5714963

Did he change his mind?

297. Alexan+UD[view] [source] 2022-02-08 19:27:11
>>mikeyo+(OP)
> One overlooked detail in the Razzlekahn arrest. Almost all the money went through AlphaBay, using it as a mixer. The feds were able to see through this because they seized AlphaBay. Its amazing how, even years after, darknet market seizures pay dividends to the feds.

Another fascinating detail.

Source: https://twitter.com/ncweaver/status/1491118233973571585

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300. grumpl+mE[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 19:29:20
>>Alexan+Ik
You really think the government would have trouble doing a handful of raids at once? They have enough officers to do a thousand raids at once. The FBI and Interpol did just that recently, coordinated across more than a dozen countries:

https://www.europol.europa.eu/media-press/newsroom/news/800-...

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304. tnorth+cF[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 19:32:44
>>grumpl+hD
What portion of those convictions are plea bargains?

This article says 97%: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/prisons-are-packed-bec...

Why are people so eager to confess their guilt instead of challenging the government to prove their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt to the satisfaction of a unanimous jury?

The answer is simple and stark: They’re being coerced.

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347. cft+NK[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 19:56:31
>>Santal+fE
Crypto is also a white supremacy tool: https://www.economist.com/united-states/2022/02/05/the-charm...
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356. sincer+zL[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 19:59:29
>>system+sG
> What makes hacking illegal?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1030

357. mrkram+CL[view] [source] 2022-02-08 19:59:46
>>mikeyo+(OP)
>Hackers Move $3.55B Worth of Bitcoin from 2016 Bitfinex Hack

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30162085

So government was moving bitcoins not hackers. Like I said in that thread it is easier to launder cash than bitcoins because bitcoins are on chain forever and cold cash can be laundered in numerous ways.

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368. CrazyS+QM[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 20:04:24
>>trhway+sF
> Sidenote: one of the reasons i don't touch crypto is possible laundering charge/suspicion if the tokens happens to had passed through unsavory hands/situation

A page recently posted here ([1], citing [2]) claimed that there's a market for freshly mined Bitcoin (i.e. with no history), with people paying as much as 20% markup for it to avoid such risks.

I didn't make any attempt to verify this claim.

[1] https://sethforprivacy.com/posts/fungibility-graveyard/

[2] https://news.bitcoin.com/industry-execs-freshly-minted-virgi...

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372. sharke+zN[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 20:07:59
>>vmcept+JF
Razzle looks like a female version of the male rapper Rahzel, who is also from New York.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahzel

And Khan is from Genghis Khan, as mentioned here:

https://www.lyrics.com/sub-artist/Razzlekhan/28366

But this is all just a guess.

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387. pcthro+rP[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 20:15:38
>>rjbwor+ae
This is already done by Trezor: https://trezor.io/shamir/
395. counte+DQ[view] [source] 2022-02-08 20:21:24
>>mikeyo+(OP)
The wife could plead not guilty by reason of insanity:

https://twitter.com/matthewesp/status/1491116443207094272?s=...

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399. openkn+tR[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 20:24:30
>>not2b+bL
That's right; your comment brings to mind this scene where the character Saul Goodman explains money laundering in Breaking Bad (this clip is supposedly shown as part of university lectures): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhsUHDJ0BFM
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401. mrkram+PR[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 20:26:14
>>everyb+7P
There is for example this https://www.kaggle.com/wjburns/common-password-list-rockyout...

But you can refer to https://hashcat.net/hashcat/

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404. planke+dS[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 20:27:51
>>everyb+7P
bitcoin developers have taken a crack at it: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/bip-003...
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408. evdubs+sT[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 20:32:29
>>tiffan+Hn
Heather Morgan admitted to the hack on TikTok

https://twitter.com/BillSPACman/status/1491131214014869505

Edit: whoops. That video is fake. It's from

https://www.tiktok.com/@realrazzlekhan/video/690851478968159...

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414. a_e_k+fU[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 20:36:44
>>smnrch+7I
This is why I like the Scottish "not proven" acquittal verdict as an intermediate third option between "not guilty" and "guilty."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_proven

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416. johnma+xU[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 20:38:15
>>counte+DQ
have you seen her rap video? https://razzlekhan.com/ She should be arrested purely for subjecting people to its existence.
426. subpix+6W[view] [source] 2022-02-08 20:44:29
>>mikeyo+(OP)
"When she's not reverse-engineering black markets to think of better ways to combat fraud and cybercrime, she enjoys rapping and designing streetwear fashion."

My online bio need some levelling-up.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/heathermorgan/?sh=6e246df87f7d

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459. vmcept+S01[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 21:05:25
>>pdog+vq
> Y Combinator did not respond to BuzzFeed News’ request for comment.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/sarahemerson/crypto-lau...

465. dorlev+A11[view] [source] 2022-02-08 21:08:48
>>mikeyo+(OP)
"How to Social Engineer Your Way Into Anything — Heather R. Morgan | NYC Salon 101 " : https://youtu.be/JmahJCWJ8iM?t=1572

Heather Morgan explaining how you can social engineer yourself out of a bad situation, can't make this shit up.

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467. lowkey+R11[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 21:10:10
>>pavlov+tO
And it's official, Godwin's Law [0] has reached crypto. The purpose of Bitcoin is of course to support the Nazi cause. What other purpose could it possibly have? /s

Hint: Millions of people use Bitcoin as a:

- store of value to protect purchasing power over time

- inflation hedge to protect savings from the ravages of inflation

- a hedge to protect against corrupt governments manipulating currency

- protection from negative real interest rates

- censorship-resistant payments

- anonymous payments with instant finality (Lightning)

Money is a tool like any other. Cash, gold, NFTs, Bitcoin, and credit cards can be used for good or evil, lawful or unlawful purposes. The technology isn't inherently moral or immoral. It is just a tool.

The "it's really for nazis" argument is particularly weak. The critics must be getting desperate.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

472. mmh000+d21[view] [source] 2022-02-08 21:11:45
>>mikeyo+(OP)
More people needs to learn about CoinJoins[0].

"CoinJoin is a trustless method for combining multiple Bitcoin payments from multiple spenders into a single transaction to make it more difficult for outside parties to determine which spender paid which recipient or recipients. Unlike many other privacy solutions, coinjoin transactions do not require a modification to the bitcoin protocol."

[0] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/CoinJoin

476. binary+V21[view] [source] 2022-02-08 21:15:26
>>mikeyo+(OP)
"I deeply, deeply regret to inform you that this is the rap video of the woman who was just arrested as part of an alleged husband-wife scheme that laundered some $3.6 billion in crypto."

https://twitter.com/kevincollier/status/1491107221857796097

493. facorr+f51[view] [source] 2022-02-08 21:26:21
>>mikeyo+(OP)
"This is largely symbolic, but it does send a clear message.

Like it or hate it, there is a sea change happening in how governments treat cryptocurrency."

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29111446#29111572

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505. latchk+481[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 21:40:17
>>subpix+6W
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5s4taHrEWA
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523. swarsh+Qd1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 22:06:29
>>runeks+9b
That Scottish decision, while still the basis for bona fide acquisition of money in the UK and US, does not yet appear to apply for cryptocurrencies.

Your Wikipedia link cites a 2019 paper published in the Georgetown Technical Law Review whose analysis (https://georgetownlawtechreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/...) on page 415-6 says that 2016 US v 50.44 Bitcoins (https://casetext.com/case/united-states-v-5044-bitcoins) determined "cryptocurrencies do not meet the UCC's definition of money" and thus bona fide acquisition is not sufficient to prevent the crypto from being legally seized from the possessor and returned to the original owner.

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534. arctic+Hf1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 22:15:55
>>fallin+od1
They actually did claw back a bunch of the disbursements from Madoff towards the end.

https://www.wilsonelser.com/files/repository/PHLY_Article_Cl...

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536. thinkm+Nf1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 22:16:23
>>rjbwor+ae
For Bitcoin specifically, multi-signature wallets are far superior to SSS: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Multi-signature
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538. redner+7g1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 22:17:50
>>albrol+l5
Andreessen roasting this guy all morning is making my day: https://twitter.com/pmarca/status/1491150099518398466
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542. raydev+fh1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 22:23:00
>>mritch+OT
I got strong "Just 2 Guyz" vibes from it (which was intentionally funny): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt2OVAgkHBc
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546. hnburn+Sh1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 22:27:04
>>pshc+Mb1
The famous Bitcoin family reportedly spread their hardware wallets across the globe.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/11/bitcoin-family-hides-bitcoin...

556. amazd+hj1[view] [source] 2022-02-08 22:34:53
>>mikeyo+(OP)
Here's a video of the couple, with the dude getting a hair cut from the rapper gf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDY1bC9eL-A
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572. spyder+An1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 23:00:20
>>albrol+l5
Heh... He has some comments on "Feds reveal the search warrant used to seize Mt. Gox account " in 2013:

As the anarchists and idealists on HN will soon learn, the decentralized nature of Bitcoin won't make a difference if anyone transmitting it is in violation of federal law. --

This was inevitable. People can wax rhapsodic about the decentralized nature of Bitcoin, but once the feds freeze a few million dollars of a major exchange's assets, as they have done with every single anonymous digital currency since the beginning of time (e-gold,1mdc,Liberty Dollar) and launch a criminal investigation, the currency will be severely destabilized. Within the next year I expect to see a cottage industry emerge where the true believers cash out frozen bitcoin accounts for pennies on the dollar.

and a few other:

https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=il&next=5714990

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577. easrng+Wo1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 23:08:55
>>judge2+em1
There are atomic swaps between BTC and XMR at least (see https://unstoppableswap.net/) but for centralized exchanges check kycnot.me
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580. hkt+0p1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 23:09:15
>>judge2+em1
There are decentralised exchanges like bisq: https://bisq.wiki/Main_Page

Presumably, this would do the trick.

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620. spyder+Gv1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 23:55:52
>>localh+GB
"I have to say a lot of large companies have security holes" XD

https://youtu.be/O9jstO5KpCY?t=552

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622. weq+Tv1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-08 23:58:16
>>pshc+Mb1
Reminds me of the man who was sent to jail for refusing to reveal his keys. think this happens alot.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/02/man-who-refused-...

632. archiv+bz1[view] [source] 2022-02-09 00:21:05
>>mikeyo+(OP)
For those who are blocked by the paywall - https://webreader.app/?url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/na...
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641. mardif+RD1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-09 00:49:47
>>digian+Mu1
I think my comment was not really clear. Yes, the apparent mistake Alex made was glaring and obvious, but the entire operation was very weird. They shut down alphabay right before turning off The Hansa, which they had been operating for months at that point. It was the coup de grace, basically trying to get as many people to sign in to the Hansa before it also goes off.

To me that indicates they have been able to turn off alphabay for a long time, considering how easily and well timed they did it. That also means they have had tons of time to build the case. Of course you can argue that the simplest explanation is the best one but considering law enforcement literally operated the biggest DNM for months, completely under the radar I'm not sure why "they found an email he used for a few weeks 4 years ago" would be more simple.

You can read what DeSnake, another admin of the website had to say about the takedown. He's extremely security conscious (he hasn't been caught yet afaik which is another can of worms) and he's adamant that it was not a simple bust. Actually, the whole thing was kind of a mess, with some mods getting arrested (even without making obvious mistakes like Alex did ). You can read up on the confusion here: https://www.darkowl.com/blog-content/alphabay-marketplace-re...

If I had to guess, some mod/admin informed on him (maybe even snake!) hence why they had access to an early email. But who knows? Now in cases like the silk road I'd agree that it was simply trash OPSEC but the Alphabay/Hansa takedown was so sophisticated that anything is possible

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665. comex+mL1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-09 01:43:47
>>cobook+HV
> is the onus on an artist or on an "auction house" to vet buyers. If post sale it turns out the money was fraudulent, does the artist need to pay it back?

No. Normally you have to return items that were stolen from someone even if you purchased them without knowing they were stolen. But money is an exception. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemo_dat_quod_non_habet

(I don’t know whether Bitcoin would be treated as money for these purposes…)

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666. pizzal+CL1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-09 01:45:48
>>bleach+nr1
Read the affidavit from the special agent. https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1470186/downl...

"Between the 2016 hack and the present, LICHTENSTEIN and MORGAN further engaged in a diverse array of virtual currency transactions, including transacting in numerous altcoins, liquidating BTC through a BTC ATM,23 and purchasing non-fungible tokens (NFTs)."

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668. sdento+eM1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-09 01:50:14
>>tptace+hQ
'In 2011, Swartz was arrested by Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) police on state breaking-and-entering charges, after connecting a computer to the MIT network in an unmarked and unlocked closet, and setting it to download academic journal articles systematically from JSTOR using a guest user account issued to him by MIT.[13][14] Federal prosecutors, led by Carmen Ortiz, later charged him with two counts of wire fraud and eleven violations of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act,[15] carrying a cumulative maximum penalty of $1 million in fines, 35 years in prison, asset forfeiture, restitution, and supervised release.[16] Swartz declined a plea bargain under which he would have served six months in federal prison.[17] Two days after the prosecution rejected a counter-offer by Swartz, he was found dead by suicide in his Brooklyn apartment.[18][19] In 2013, Swartz was inducted posthumously into the Internet Hall of Fame.[20]'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz

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676. rainbo+uP1[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-09 02:16:12
>>everyb+7P
Not 1000, but the EFF diceware long word list has my vote.

https://www.eff.org/files/2016/07/18/eff_large_wordlist.txt

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713. throwj+y32[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-09 04:09:45
>>second+5z1
Wow, justification for rape right here. He was 43 when it happened.

https://idlewords.com/2010/05/an_annotated_letter_from_roman...

A link in there has expired. Archived here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20100130223615/http://www.thesmo...

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717. kingch+W62[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-09 04:40:22
>>localh+GB
New link:

https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=_DIuPPmY9mw

724. mdoms+ad2[view] [source] 2022-02-09 05:38:30
>>mikeyo+(OP)
Some of the videos coming out from one of the offenders are unbearably cringe.

https://twitter.com/jackdwagner/status/1491141362707996672

https://twitter.com/jackdwagner/status/1491140930090717184

https://twitter.com/rudy_betrayed/status/1491225062984531968

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728. bandra+ve2[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-09 05:49:57
>>pimbra+lP1
There isn't $3.6B worth of Monero, though.

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/monero/

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744. trhway+Pn2[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-09 07:27:54
>>hooand+GU1
they did take a small yet real PPP money :)

https://www.thedailybeast.com/heather-morgan-rapping-tech-ce...

“The only other significant deposit to the account was an approximately $11,000 U.S. Small Business Administration Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) loan advance provided in response to the COVID-19 crisis,” the complaint states.

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750. xwolfi+ct2[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-09 08:23:26
>>rasz+M5
No they nabbed them for using stolen funds to create startups in the first place. They had no products (https://web.archive.org/web/20220113181658/https://endpass.c...)

She presents herself here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWq7JgRknTM , I suppose you know what kind of person she is right ? The kind that use pipes as in "Economist | MBA | Serial Entrepreneur | Rapper "in their linkedin profiles but do nothing at all once hired :)

She was more truthful 7 years ago: https://youtu.be/NQAA2LlabUg?t=84 where she listed her main skill as copy writing.

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771. buran7+tH2[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-09 10:41:52
>>lhorie+kI
> Technically no

Technically language is very interpretable but in some very simple cases it can be mitigated to the point where it's not a realistic issue. Even your book example isn't simple enough to be completely iron clad in all cases. You can receive a book that matches the criteria you provided (say title) but it's not really the book you were thinking of [0].

For more complex things like contracts and laws you have a lot of reasonably vague points that are up for interpretation. Courts reinterpret laws an contracts all the time, it's (part of) their job. Math is nowhere near as interpretable.

[0] https://www.flavorwire.com/376237/the-doubles-10-pairs-of-gr...

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788. jrochk+gX2[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-09 13:06:48
>>albrol+l5
> On a LinkedIn page that appears to belong to Morgan, however, she is listed as a partner at Demandpath, a “boutique micro-fund investing” firm. A LinkedIn profile seemingly belonging to Lichtenstein also places him at Demandpath. Prior to that, he’s described on Crunchbase as a founder of the advertising research startup MixRank, which was incubated at Y Combinator and raised more than $1.5 million in funding from Mark Cuban and other venture capitalists. (Lichtenstein is nowhere to be found on MixRank’s website.) Neither Demandpath nor MixRank responded to BuzzFeed News’ request for comment.

> Cuban told BuzzFeed News his last email exchange with Lichtenstein was in 2012. “I also found an email saying he left MixRank 6 years ago. That’s the extent of what I know about the guy,” Cuban said.

> Y Combinator did not respond to BuzzFeed News’ request for comment.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/sarahemerson/crypto-lau...

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796. FabHK+173[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-09 14:08:55
>>wcoene+mk
Regarding NFTs and money laundering, see the inimitable Matt Levine here (second story, Oh by the way):

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-01-19/washin...

> This is called “money laundering,” and the essential component of money laundering is generating fake taxable income. If you take $13,800 out of your (legitimate, previously taxed) bank account, and you use it to buy cryptocurrency in a wallet that you tell your accountant and the IRS about, and you then use that cryptocurrency to buy a Meebit, and then you take $50 million out of your sack of illegal money, and you use it to buy cryptocurrency in a wallet that you don’t tell your accountant about, and then you use that cryptocurrency to buy the Meebit from your declared wallet, and then you take the $50 million of cryptocurrency out of the declared wallet and put it back in your (legitimate) bank account, and then you write the IRS a check for $20 million saying “ah I’ve been selling NFTs, what fun I have had, but I have to pay the IRS my fair share,” then … I am obviously not going to give you advice on crime but it’s possible you’ve got something there? Like, nobody has any idea what a Meebit is worth, so this string of outlandish numbers is somewhat plausible? It’s possible that some number of NFT wash trades have a purpose other than pumping up volume on NFT platforms?

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800. koonso+Sc3[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-09 14:40:47
>>fxtent+35
> which would be "whoever has the cryptographic keys".

This is still true, no? Now the government has the keys, so they own it. It's clear that you can't be sloppy with your keys, because "whoever has the cryptographic keys".

If they used a brainwallet (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Brainwallet), the gov wouldn't have taken those keys.

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819. teloto+Y64[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-09 18:45:08
>>notch6+mz3
According to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_w..., the total wealth of the US in 2021 (which is what I'm supposing would be subject to the inflation Zakat) was $126,340B, 2.5% of which is $3,158B.

According to https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/welfare_spending_analys..., in FY2021 welfare (not including Social Security or Medicare, which are for retirees, but including Medicaid) was $2,418B across federal, state, and local, about 76.6%. Neither Zakat or US welfare spending includes discretionary charity.

Overall, US welfare spending seems to be on the same order as, albeit a little less than, a Zakat imposed on all US wealth. Also, I'm not sure if this welfare figure includes EITC, which is the logical way that additional cash benefits should be distributed (since it avoids welfare cliffs).

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834. azth+0d5[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 00:23:37
>>notch6+m55
> I guess you have more faith than I do that a human vested with these large sums will apply it appropriately.

I agree that humans can be greedy, etc. But that's why we have a judicial system. When you look at history, the Islamic scholars took their faith extremely seriously. Their accounts and biographies are not something you'd find in Western texts, but those exceptional people truly did exist. And because of them, we had things like the Islamic Golden Age.

The governments today have way more money on their hands don't they? Especially with the insane taxation rates we see. You allude to this point when you mention secular welfare systems. But history shows otherwise when Islam was applied.

> Umayyad had a variety of religions of persons overseen by their caliphate

Islam was the dominant religion, and the majority of the population were Muslims. The non-Muslims had to pay Jizya (limited to able men, i.e. not women, children, old men, or religious priests).

One of the categories of people who are eligible to receive Zakat, are those whose hearts are inclined toward Islam. Other than that, I don't think non-Muslims receive it. That being said, poor and needy non-Muslims are definitely eligible for charity (Sadaqah), and it is the responsibility of a functioning government to ensure that its population is well taken care of. Islam guarantees the rights of non-Muslims, and is very strict about it.

> I'd also be interested in seeing the citation that poverty didn't exist under this caliphate.

I didn't claim that no poverty existed in the entire Caliphate. As you know, the Caliphate spanned several regions and districts. I mentioned the Iraqi district, but I came across this question[1], which mentions that the mayors of the Libiyan and Tunisian regions wrote to Umar ibn AbdulAziz that they could not find a needy person to give them Zakat, so he responded to give it to the poor among the Jews and Christians. They replied that still no one took it, and they were no needy among them, so Umar replied to leave it in the market for anyone to take as they need. When still no one took it, Umar ordered to purchase slaves and free them.

I'll have to validate the authenticity of this specific account, but the notion that during Umar's rule, in certain districts there were no poor people left to accept Zakat is established.

> If I wanted to enforce Zakat via inflation, I would mandate people to hold their money in bank

Ah I see. It's prohibited in Islam to hold someone's money against their will, so there goes that :)

[1] https://islamqa.info/ar/answers/182393/%D8%AD%D9%83%D9%85-%D...

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835. xwolfi+9D5[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 04:23:56
>>albrol+l5
And don't ask me how I found it, but that's her: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=rogueeconomist
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836. chemma+hD5[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 04:25:12
>>cobook+HV
Melania Trump recently did this to her NFT.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/sohojt/mela...

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842. teloto+Ly7[view] [source] [discussion] 2022-02-10 17:46:37
>>azth+mu4
> Different types of wealth have different Zakat values, and not all wealth is subject to Zakat (e.g. the value of your home does not count towards Zakat).

Of course. I did not want to get into such complications. This was more of a Fermi estimate to compare the amount a Zakat would raise in the US.

> It's strictly superior to have a system based on Zakat than the insane income taxes that we have today.

Maybe - remember that the US government pays for more besides bare welfare for the needy. Also the Islamic Zakat pays for more than welfare - also administration of Zakat (reasonable, but should be kept as low as possible) and Islamic missionary efforts (I don't think the US should redirect its welfare to "spreading liberty and democracy").

Even in Islam, there were more taxes than Zakat[1] - at the very least, a tax on harvests (corporate income or business reciepts tax) and a land tax - because Islamic governments also have other responsibilities besides charity. It would stand to reason that the federal and state governments would also continue to collect other taxes to support other government responsibilities. Also remember that inflation (certainly that intentionally engineered by the central bank) is effectively a wealth tax.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_taxes

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