https://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/news/2012-09-12/ron-pa...
But then there was this: https://twitter.com/NatSecGeek/status/1273329710576152581
https://www.csis.org/analysis/rise-far-right-extremism-unite...
https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/security/reports/201...
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/03/world/white-e...
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/01/homegrown-...
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/outrageo...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/hsbc-s-1-9b-money-launderin...
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-18880269
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/hsbc-holdings-plc-and-hsbc-ba...
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/right-wing-terro...
But we still should take efforts to reduce that, whether it's by building showers with textured floors and efforts to counteract terrorism...
https://www.seattlepi.com/national/article/Someone-drowns-in...
https://zbpublic.blob.core.windows.net/public/terrorism2015/...
Also modern terrorism is bad but we forget that far-left and state sponsored terrorism was worse in the 80s (numbers as of 2017):
number of attacks over time: https://zbpublic.blob.core.windows.net/public/terrorism2015/...
number of deaths: https://zbpublic.blob.core.windows.net/public/terrorism2015/...
And this is in the EU. In the US I am sure the numbers would be completely drown in the numbers for common crime.
But if you did, there's a link at the bottom to the report they're citing, so let's check that: http://www.austinchronicle.com/documents/fusioncenterreport.... This one isn't original reporting either. It's a 38-page think tank whitepaper from "The Constitution Project" on the subject of Fusion Centers in general.
And IT only mentions Ron Paul in one sentence too, where it mixes it in with two other items in the same bullet point: "A Missouri-based fusion center issued a February 2009 report describing support for the presidential campaigns of Ron Paul or third party candidates, possession of the iconic “Don’t Tread on Me” "ag and anti-abortion activism as signs of membership in domestic terrorist groups" So now we've gone from your 8 year old link to a point three years farther in the past. And the source for that attention grabbing headling is still nowhere to be found.
But that bullet point was footnoted, so let's check that. It's... another news story! Actually the URL in the footnote is stale and broken, but I found the story by headline using Google: https://www.columbiatribune.com/article/20090314/News/303149...
So this tells us all about the Ron Paul thing, right? Nope. It, too, mentions Ron Paul in only one sentence: "Red flags outlined in the document include political bumper stickers such as those for U.S. Rep. Ron Paul, talk of conspiracy theories such as the plan for a mega-highway from Canada to Mexico and possession of subversive literature.". So that's dilluted STILL FURTHER in a bunch of other items, most of which sound... not too terribly off to me.
And the source for this report? They have a link, but not to the report: https://www.infowars.com/secret-state-police-report-ron-paul...
Yup, four hops and we're at Infowars. And the report they cite? Not public. They're apparently the only one who have seen it.
You got fooled by "media laundering" into regurgitating partisan agitprop. I can't prove your "fact" is wrong, but the support for it is VERY thin.
- https://www.themarshallproject.org/2019/09/30/new-fbi-data-v... - https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/10/17/facts-about...
The latter indicates that, depending on which data you use, the violent crime rate dropped 50–75% between 1993 and 2018 (the larger drop is from BJS, which has some methodology for estimating unreported crimes). The property crime rate dropped at 50–70% over the same time period.
Various actors in society—police gangs (sorry, “unions”), public prosecutors, for-profit prison operators, and straight up fascists—have been stoking fears of Americans for decades such that there are people who genuinely believe that America (as a whole) has more crime even when the numbers completely put a lie to that.
I’m certain that the leaks from this will reinforce what we should already know: America is increasingly a surveillance state of its police against its people, that the police rarely end up doing the jobs that they are nominally hired for (solving crimes), and that there has been an overall reduction in crime but an increase in policing outsized compared to the value police forces provide.
Don’t believe the bollocks.
You observe an outlier but fail to put it into context. The police in the US aren't comparable to police in other western countries. As a result, comparing crime rates is disingenuous.
The lady in your anecdote is also painfully disingenuous. Being a police officer isn't really dangerous. The death rate is much higher for landscapers, bartenders, taxi drivers, etc.. Roofers have a mortality rate of 4x the police. Even then, most police officers die in traffic accidents, not homicide [0].
[0]: https://qz.com/410585/garbage-collectors-are-more-likely-to-...
The Missouri Highway Patrol retracted the report from the Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) in 2009. They removed the mentions for Ron Paul and Campaign for Liberty.
The Highway Patrol launched an investigation into the origin of the report. The Lieutenant Governor Peter Kinder called for the suspension of the Director of Public Safety “until those responsible have been identified”.
We personally investigated the story in 2009. I have seen the report. I served as a national Ron Paul campaign person and currently work within the IC and international law enforcement.
The Fusion of Paranoia and Bad Policy - Center for Democracy and Technology 4/1/2009
https://cdt.org/insights/the-fusion-of-paranoia-and-bad-poli...
And if they do end up going to court: " the court held that California police who stand accused of stealing $225,000 cannot be sued because they never were told specifically that stealing money from people’s homes violates the Constitution"
https://www.ocregister.com/2020/05/14/high-court-to-decide-i...
https://web.archive.org/web/20100108060904/media.kspr.com/do...
I looked at the articles you linked to. The New York Times mentions white extremist suggesting racially motivated but also mentions international terrorism instead of domestic terrorism. Your first source attempts to define right-wing extremism as a political motivation. That said your point isn’t very clear.
If you are limiting your point to domestic US terrorism racially motivated terrorism greatly exceeds religiously motivated terrorism but the numbers are tiny either way. If you are talking internationally religiously motivated terrorism by far takes the lead when you consider that ISIS is a growing threat in Afghanistan and Pakistan and when you consider the various terrorist organizations in sub-Saharan Africa like Boko Haram.
"Right-wing extremism" was clearly intended to refer to the home-grown variety here.
And how "tiny" the numbers are is somewhat subjective. Terrorism works by terrorizing, meaning its intended to affect far more people than the immediate victims by instilling fear.
Just from the last few years, everyone will remember the Orlando nightclub shooting, the Pittsburgh synagogue, the Q/MAGA-superfan mailing pipe bombs, or the Poway synagogue shooting. There are many more that you may have forgotten on wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States...
- victim becomes a martyr despite being "no angel" (Weaver was a white supremacist, dealing in illegal firearms)
- initial involvement of law enforcement is entrapment (undercover ATF agents)
- lies by law enforcement ("the ATF filed the gun charges in June 1990. It claimed that Weaver was a bank robber with criminal convictions.[27] (Those claims were false: at that time Weaver had no criminal record. The 1995 Senate investigation found: "Weaver was not a suspect in any bank robberies.")
- basic cockups (court date mixup)
- absurdly long quasi-siege
- significantly lighter treatment and more investigation than similar fiascoes for nonwhite people (e.g. Breonna Taylor); the 2020 version of this would probably have just been to drive a MRAP through the shack and use the return fire as sufficient justification for the killings (see e.g. https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/08/31/actor-steve... )
- they shot the dog. They always shoot the dog
- attempt to prosecute sniper is met with sovereign immunity, case is dropped
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/coomer...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...
https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/nov/30/new-yo...
One issue is that there is no single entity pushing a single policy. You have a lot of people saying a lot of things.
>The argument is not that the police doesn't solve crime, it's that they cause it.
Yeah. That's insanity. Is that backed up by any study? What does that even mean? There is no country on earth without a police department.
>The police in the US aren't comparable to police in other western countries.
I agree with that, and one big reason is that the American crime-rate is an outlier compared to other western countries.
>he death rate is much higher for landscapers, bartenders, taxi drivers, etc.. Roofers have a mortality rate of 4x the police.
Sure - but there is a different level of stress that comes around when your death can be caused by another human versus accidents and negligence. The death-rate of soldiers in Iraq wasn't very high by percentage either and yet it resulted in a lot of PTSD in soldiers that weren't even casualties. The stresses that cops experience are closer to active military servicemen rather than landscapers - wouldn't you say?
I remember watching this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfi3Ndh3n-g which shows you how quickly things can escalate especially when you're dealing with tense situations. That's what cops have in the back of their mind, for good or bad. And if you're working in a high-crime area, it's going to affect you.
Unlike roofers and landscapers, the police are also dealing with the ugliest sides of humanity. They are called in to deal with murder and rape and abuse all the time.
Having said that, this is a good argument for INCREASED investment in police departments, namely the increasing and continual training for police officers in dealing with high-stress situations and de-escalation tactics. For example, each month, each police officer should take 2 or 3 days just for this kind of training. You can also raise standards for admissions. Those are all good policies, and though expensive still, cheaper than social strife.
Precisely the same mentality is present in many of the most crime ridden neighborhoods in the US.[1]
Are you able to think objectively for a moment, and see how your reaction to police doing that, is similar the police's reaction to criminals doing that?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian
So sworn police officers are not normally considered civilians, while non-sworn personel are:
https://www.discoverpolicing.org/explore-the-field/types-of-...
https://www.discoverpolicing.org/explore-the-field/civilian-...
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-...
Sure it is. In general this kind of data is hard to acquire because the police rarely stop working. When they do though, the results are fairly clear [0]. This study was made after a "strike" by the police. The study attempts to account for under-reporting due to this fact.
Please note that just because _some_ crime is caused by police doesn't mean _all_ is.
> There is no country on earth without a police department.
Something about appeal to tradition. Anyway, as you might know police departments are a very new thing. Policing, in its current form, has existed for <200 years, founded under what is known as the Peelian principles [1]. Principles my previous paragraph demonstrates to have been violated by the police departments.
> PTSD in soldiers that weren't even casualties
The two of us are obviously coming from two very different perspectives. I have a hard time having sympathy for the soldiers who fought in Iraq and I think I'll have a hard time convincing you to feel otherwise.
[0]: Sullivan, C.M., O’Keeffe, Z.P. _Evidence that curtailing proactive policing can reduce major crime_. Nat Hum Behav 1, 730–737 (2017).
I understand there is an issue in internalizing the 2 main versions (Southern spin vs Northern spin) of 'whitewashed history' in the US. An objective viewer would consider them very sanitized, misleading, and often propagandized versions of history that are somewhat benign to people of European descent but toxic to non-white people that mainline it. It leads to a misunderstanding of how the world really works, came to be, and minimizes the role criminality played in the whole exercise, especially due its exclusion of unbiased economic history.
I think certain populations in the US have the unfortunate experience of being miseducated about who they are and why they are where they are, then spend the rest of their lives (if curious) unlearning/re-educating themselves about how the world really works and filling the gaps that were conveniently excluded from our prevailing historical narratives.
The mistrust of the information in some areas of study is based on intuition that isn't completely wrong.
"Miseducation of the Negro" touches on some of these topics though it is not an exhaustive exploration. We've learned a lot more about the layers of misinformation since 1933 (publish date), it would be interesting to read an updated version.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mis-Education_of_the_Neg...
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/weekly-nyc-shootings-s...
https://netsential.com/default.aspx?menuitemid=283&menugroup...
[1] https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/blueleaks-dat...
> Still waiting on a good example from you to support this seemingly facile hypothesis.
If your home is burglarized, the source of the problem is the burglar, but the solution might be better social policy. If you break a bone, the cause might be you being careless, but the solution is to see a doctor, who will fix the bone regardless of the cause. If there is a wide-spread narcotics addict problem, the problem is ultimately caused by addicts not having willpower to abstain, but the solution cannot be fixed by making them have more willpower, since we don’t know how to do that; the solution must be sought elsewhere.
Likewise, the problem of police behavior might or might not be entirely caused by citizens, but we can’t affect the behavior of citizens, and therefore we must fix the problem some other way.
There’s an expression which summarizes it: “Fix the problem, not the blame.” Expounded upon, for instance, here:
http://www.holliseaster.com/p/fix-the-problem-not-the-blame/
