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DEA authorized to conduct surveillance on protestors

submitted by codeze+(OP) on 2020-06-02 23:42:15 | 599 points 305 comments
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12. billme+Y2[view] [source] 2020-06-03 00:04:59
>>codeze+(OP)
>> “In August 2013, a report by Reuters revealed that the Special Operations Division (SOD) of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration advises DEA agents to practice parallel construction when creating criminal cases against Americans that are based on NSA warrantless surveillance.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction#By_the_U...

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23. aaronb+O3[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 00:10:12
>>pfunds+t2
You'd probably want to start by passing a sweeping anti-corruption plan. https://www.vox.com/2019/9/16/20867216/elizabeth-warren-anti...
43. arkadi+S5[view] [source] 2020-06-03 00:26:44
>>codeze+(OP)
Via Kim Zetter:

> If you're wondering why DEA and US Marshal's Service have been given authority to conduct covert surveillance of protestors, it's likely because they have planes outfitted with Dirtboxes - powerful stingray devices that collect data on phones from the air

https://twitter.com/KimZetter/status/1267969704259280896

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54. snazz+Q6[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 00:33:33
>>eli+N4
There've been reports that the Minneapolis Police Department has used Stingrays. Apparently there are some phones that can detect it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingray_phone_tracker#Counter...
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57. testbo+H7[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 00:40:29
>>koheri+u6
Because the DEA has a special unit for it: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-dea-sod/exclusive-u-s-dir...
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76. gumby+ta[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 01:03:20
>>pfunds+t2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-system_effect

Of course the current US constitution is V2.

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77. testbo+ya[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 01:03:44
>>koheri+H6
28 CFR § 0.100: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/0.100
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89. splint+Ub[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 01:15:20
>>aaronb+k6
I highly recommend watching this video [1] to understand why "progress has stalled".

Believe it or not, it's by design.

1. https://youtu.be/Ggz_gd--UO0

91. readhn+Bc[view] [source] 2020-06-03 01:22:02
>>codeze+(OP)
Surveillance of protesters:

Student leaders were put under close surveillance by the authorities, traffic cameras were used to perform surveillance on the square and the restaurants in the nearby area and where students gathered were wiretapped.[108] This surveillance led to the identification, capture and punishment of participants of the protest.[109] After the massacre, the government did thorough interrogations at work units, institutions and schools to identify who had been at the protest.[110]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests...

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95. alexan+he[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 01:38:56
>>themod+Y4
Well I just learned about a website today that gives the list of the police who have been sued and their names and records. [1]

I think maybe a better use of the public outrage of cancel-culture might be to direct that call-out energy from celebrities to police that commit manslaughter.

Next step might be getting pictures on such a website.

1. https://www.capstat.nyc/officer/p11154/

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100. lukife+og[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 01:58:29
>>pfunds+t2
Electoral reform. Every state manages its own electoral processes, and the vast majority of states have some mechanism for direct democracy through ballot initiatives.

There are many potential improvements, from algorithmic redistricting to mail-in voting, but the big one IMO is Ranked Choice Voting (Maine has already achieved this successfully, and it's stood up against court challenges [0]). This allows us to break the R/D duopoly, and shift the incentives towards big-tent consensus-building rather than demonization and "lesser evilism", and giving independents and third parties a real path to victory.

[0] https://www.maine.gov/sos/cec/elec/upcoming/rankedchoicefaq....

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102. dvtrn+Jh[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 02:13:40
>>malnou+I7
Is it “deflecting” to point out how much Democrats benefit form gerrymandering while taking Republicans to task for the same thing? [0][1][2]. What about about senate confirmations[3][4][5]?

[0] https://thefulcrum.us/worst-gerrymandering-districts-example...

[1] https://www.thedailybeast.com/democrats-hate-gerrymanderinge...

[2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/03/28/how-m...

[3] https://www.heritage.org/homeland-security/commentary/hypocr...

[4] https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/senate-nuclear-filibuster-ru...

[5] https://time.com/3701079/obama-filibuster/

If we don’t wanna go there that’s fine I suppose, I just want to know where we’re gonna draw the line between “deflection” and having a substantive discussion on the gamesmanship going on inside the beltway without devolving into the usual brutish “my side good, your side bad”.

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104. tonyst+4i[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 02:16:52
>>pfunds+t2
Now is a very good time to focus on local politics.

For example, the police is very much controlled locally. Do you have real civilian oversight? There are a host of policies that are mostly enacted locally that are recommended by this org: https://www.joincampaignzero.org/

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124. dane-p+Hl[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 02:58:04
>>dvtrn+Jh
Perhaps the reason Democrats complain about Republicans gerrymandering is because the Republicans are better at it than them[0]? If your opponent cheats more than you do, then obviously you have an incentive to make cheating harder.

For a substantive discussion on gamesmanship, we need to ask "Which side is most likely to work to end partisan gerrymandering (perhaps with a change to a more proportional voting system[1])?"

[0] https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/11/republicans-ger...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_2018_Maine_Question_1

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133. dvtrn+Gn[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 03:21:16
>>dane-p+Hl
I mean it’s certainly possible, have definitely floated that idea around before whilst talking politics with friends over beers.

It’s just seems to me the problem many have when this type of conversation emerges isn’t with the behavior, it’s the actor and that doesn’t quite square with me.

“Don’t hate the player, hate the game”. If gerrymandering is a “threat to democracy”[0], seems to me we should be critiquing anyone who plays that game instead of waiting for our team’s turn to ratfuck the country the country by the same measure. That signals either the rules were a problem to begin with and we should have changed them long ago, or we kept them in place knowing they were being taken advantage of and just waiting for our team to get the ball back-does it not?

But that’s just merely one example, it’s not representative of the totality of Capitol Hill politicking. Arguably one party is focused and pushing a message of progress and righting social ills but I’m not going to let them off when they play stupid games either, nor should anyone IMO.

[0] https://www.npr.org/2018/10/23/659745042/gerrymandering-is-a...

139. seesaw+Do[view] [source] 2020-06-03 03:33:35
>>codeze+(OP)
There was a post on Reddit where a guy found dozens of cameras hidden on poles that he could access with their IP addresses in browser and even control directly and get live feed into people's homes. Some of those said "Property of DEA". Eventually hundreds of people started accessing with the ip addresses that were listed by the OP and the feed was cut off.

[0] https://old.reddit.com/r/conspiracy_commons/comments/gin79z/...

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142. trough+Vp[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 03:49:54
>>trfhuh+zk
I remember seeing "kali uga" somewhere, but it's not pretty, and unfortunately, still somewhat relevant today given this whole thing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lightning_and_the_Sun

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143. mehrda+2q[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 03:51:07
>>mumble+Ib
> didn't anticipate the development of the two-party system

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23398788

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163. Consul+rt[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 04:27:29
>>paxys+Z1
The Democrats are actively trying to give Trump even more police power. Just because they say some of the words you like doesn't mean they're on your side.

https://sirota.substack.com/p/10-things-dems-could-do-right-...

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176. ClaySh+rw[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 04:56:51
>>lukife+et
Fargo, ND will use approval voting for the first time this Tuesday, June 9th. First time in American history. Albeit this is a two-winner race. So their are 7 candidates on the ballot (one of whom dropped out), and two write-in slots. You can vote for as many candidates as you want to, and the two with the most votes win.

https://www.inforum.com/news/government-and-politics/6492174...

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177. ClaySh+xw[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 04:57:36
>>projek+9a
No, it wouldn't require a constitutional amendment.

https://www.rangevoting.org/PropRep

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178. 011000+Gw[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 04:58:39
>>seesaw+Do
We knew years ago that the DEA has cameras all over the place. They do things like hide them in traffic control devices and read license plates with them. They analyze the traffic to look for drug mules and pass off tips to local police so they can execute parallel construction and hide the real source of the evidence. We all talked about it and, like most big brother shit, no one cared and we all moved on. Glad the kids are rediscovering it.

https://qz.com/1458475/the-dea-and-ice-are-hiding-surveillan...

https://reason.com/2012/07/11/dea-quietly-builds-its-network...

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187. sdhrnr+cB[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 05:36:53
>>trough+Vp
"Yuga" is a large timespan in a human civilization: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuga.
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205. monadi+WF[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 06:21:52
>>rowawe+2d
> And there are no more "checks and balances" because POTUS stacks the SCOTUS, and POTUS and SOTUS work hand-in-glove. The last remaining hold-out is HOROTUS, but that can flip any session.

Some time in the past, certainly at FDR’s time, dems were confident about stacking the court. What changed to defang them? The dem’s actions while Merrick Garland was denied hearings infuriate me until today: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2018/06/04/senate-obst...

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215. 8yteco+DJ[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 06:55:44
>>julian+Qr
Democrats removed super majority requirement for Supreme Court nominations. I believe a super majority would have acted as a check against a stacked court. There would be compromises and more moderate justices would have been considered. [1]

People take less notice of transgressions when their party is in power. As much as we might like to think there’s universal recognition of the current administration’s misuse of power there’s a lot of people who support it - “to get things done”. People just hate it when it’s not the things they want.

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/senate-poised-to-lim...

216. 082349+FL[view] [source] 2020-06-03 07:18:38
>>codeze+(OP)
my cynical take: DEA has been authorized because DOD will not.

B-34 et infra, p.B-6 FM 3-19.15 https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-19-15.pdf (esp B-54)

I have no idea what the most recent incarnation of GARDEN PLOT may be, the above is what I found in a quick search. But I'd hope that at this point the DOD is more likely to side with the population than other agencies, and work-to-rule if need be.

Anyone know of an online copy of DA Civil Disturbance Plan 55-2?

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227. kilroy+gU[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 08:46:14
>>pfunds+t2
This is one of the best ideas I've seen:

https://anacyclosis.org/2020/05/25/how-do-we-save-democracy/

TL;DR;

Re-align the interest of the rich so they have a strong financial interest in the middle class doing better. By having a progressive tax pegged to the median income of Americans.

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229. jacobu+sV[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 08:58:51
>>crocod+pR
I can only imagine it’s some kind of reference to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilateral_Commission and their disdain for excess of democracy.
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233. mkl+d51[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 10:58:45
>>seesaw+Do
Discussed here at the time too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23167592
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250. ceejay+Ml1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 13:25:11
>>kylebl+9u
This (inadvertently) highlights a major part of the issue right now. Cops are largely invulnerable to civilian oversight. Democratic elected officials won’t save you from the NYPD - they can’t really be fired, the police union doxxes the mayor’s daughter, they instigate police riots, and they do work stoppages when criticized.

An example from Minneapolis, from a City Council member:

https://twitter.com/MplsWard3/status/1267891878801915904

> Politicians who cross the MPD find slowdowns in their wards. After the first time I cut money from the proposed police budget, I had an uptick in calls taking forever to get a response, and MPD officers telling business owners to call their councilman about why it took so long.

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254. ozfive+wq1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 13:55:01
>>kcorey+Sm1
Please read the 22nd amendment. As a matter of fact everyone that reads this please read the documents that our country is founded on. Here is an excerpt of an article from the Atlantic that explains what would happen in this case.

"If Trump were inclined to overstay his term, the levers of power work in favor of removal. Because the president immediately and automatically loses his constitutional authority upon expiration of his term or after removal through impeachment, he would lack the power to direct the U.S. Secret Service or other federal agents to protect him. He would likewise lose his power, as the commander in chief of the armed forces, to order a military response to defend him. In fact, the newly minted president would possess those presidential powers. If necessary, the successor could direct federal agents to forcibly remove Trump from the White House. Now a private citizen, Trump would no longer be immune from criminal prosecution, and could be arrested and charged with trespassing in the White House. While even former presidents enjoy Secret Service protection, agents presumably would not follow an illegal order to protect one from removal from office."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/02/what-if-he...

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256. ilikeh+mr1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 14:01:23
>>ardy42+hk1
> I don't think so.

Actually, that is specifically the reason some supermajority rules were lifted [1]. Do you recall Merrick Garland?

The filibuster is abused similarly [2].

[1]: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2018/06/04/senate-obst...

[2]: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brookings-now/2013/11/21/char...

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262. Symmet+Fx1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 14:38:24
>>paxys+Z1
In general "checks and balances" never work particularly well. Very few presidential democracies last more than 50 years. Once you have two branches of government that can both claim a democratic mandate but have different ideologies in a conflict you get a cycle of constitutional hardball then eventually one says "I have a democratic mandate to do this and you can't stop me" and the system fails. The US managed to avoid this for so long first, because of the good example of George Washinton in establishing norms to start with. Then we had parties that were highly partisan but non-ideological and mostly fighting over graft until the progressive era. Well, there was the brief era of ideological polarization between the Democrats and Republicans around the 1860 election but we all know how that turned out. From the progressive era through Nixon's "southern strategy" we had an era of unusually low partisanship with ideologically mixed parties. But since then the parties have been diverging and nowadays all the conservatives are in the Republican party and all the liberals are in the Democrat party. And hardball tactics like filibustering all the opposing bills in the senate has started.

https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/graph/png/Filibust...

We're in a pretty bad place and I'm not sure how we get out of it.

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276. ceejay+qV1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 16:27:58
>>beeran+sQ1
Police unions are fairly unique, and heavily supported by the Republican party in recent political history.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-gop-and-police-unions-a-lo...

> When Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker cracked down on collective bargaining rights of public-sector unions, he exempted cops and fire fighters. He feared the police might go on strike and join the protestors. Videos of that pairing could have doomed Walker’s entire effort. “It’s a decision by politicians not to bite off more than they can chew,” explains James Sherk, a labor policy expert with the conservative Heritage Foundation.

Their impunity to civilian oversight should be concerning to both parties. You're not hearing much concern from the Republicans on this right now.

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284. Fjolsv+3o2[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 18:39:23
>>choose+ma1
The white people ain't rioting and they have far more deaths by cop in the US than black people. [1]

1. https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de...

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286. Fjolsv+to2[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 18:41:28
>>cycoma+UI
The same.

Edit: So, rights have to be enumerated by a country's founding documents, and then protected by that country's government. Ultimately, though, the people are responsible to establish their own freedom when no freedom exists.

Black people don't have the exclusive claim of persecution by police in the US. In fact, they suffer far fewer death by cop than white people. [1] Why do they feel they are singled out? Could it be a victim-stance mentality?

1. https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de...

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288. mythrw+is2[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 19:02:46
>>dragon+gT
Something like 1000 people a year are killed by police in the US.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de...

A larger than should be expected percentage of them are black. And this of course doesn't include harassment or other indignities inflicted on black people because of race. Also not those abuses by non police because of race.

It should be noted some number of these killings were entirely appropriate to protect life.

The point is, even though we have problems, and as this points out, we clearly do, the chance of being killed by the police for being black is very very small.

So rhetoric about "privilege" aside, ya, there is a lot of opportunity for people. Very few people go hungry in the US. There is general freedom of movement, freedom to vote, freedom to own property, some semblance of legal protection. Contrast that to say for example Boco Haram or Europe in 900AD or Baghdad during the Mongol invasions or so many other times and places, past and present in human history.

So I'm going to stick with my original thesis because it's true. We have problems. We also have ways to correct them. We also have a general understanding we should correct them. But claiming the "system doesn't work period" in hopes of <what?> is complete bollocks and in fact is usually something spoiled rich white kids say.

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289. koheri+tS2[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 21:21:08
>>kevinm+jn
There are several concerning videos of people trying to trigger violence at protests. Here is one list I saw today...

https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gvmhh6/fbi_...

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292. koheri+wT2[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-03 21:26:42
>>billme+Y2
I think a lot folks are overlooking that there are indeed some concerning instigators in some of the crowds, trying to escalate violence. I found this list of supporting videos...

https://old.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gvmhh6/fbi_...

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300. cycoma+Pw4[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-04 11:37:07
>>Fjolsv+to2
That's a pretty disingenuous way to argument using absolute numbers, considering that blacks make up a considerably smaller proportion of the population. Their relative numbers are much higher than whites: https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

Also if you are from the US I'm sure you are happy to go back to be ruled by the UK, considering that the US was founded on violent protest (note if you're from somewhere else I am very likely to find a similar example in your countries history), or are you saying it is ok to protest violently if you believe you are taxed to high (or not represented enough) but not if you are being shot disproportionally?

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303. dang+en7[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-05 08:19:51
>>paxys+Z1
Please don't take HN threads further into partisan flamewar or generic indignation. Such threads are basically all the same—people just repeat the same points they always do, and usually turn nasty. It's not what this site is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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