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Caught on camera, police explode in rage and violence across the US

submitted by MDWoli+(OP) on 2020-05-31 17:33:15 | 141 points 94 comments
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9. MDWoli+4c[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-31 19:08:02
>>mercer+nb
Yes, unfortunately, it is normalized, even 9 years ago, the UC Davis pepper spray incident shocked people, but we hardly have changed since then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC_Davis_pepper_spray_incident

10. verdve+Oe[view] [source] 2020-05-31 19:29:22
>>MDWoli+(OP)
I forgot about that, and how pissed it made me.

Also forgot how people revenge killed good, innocent cops

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/cops-shot-bro...

11. verdve+2f[view] [source] 2020-05-31 19:31:25
>>MDWoli+(OP)
Are there videos where protesters are beyond acceptable behavior? Rioters? I doubt this is a one way street by any measure.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/cops-shot-bro...

There was some pretty awful things happening on the live streams last night.

I'm surprised by how many people streamed themselves committing crimes. Are they ignorant or just dumb? The police just started taking pictures of everyone

35. eezurr+sz[view] [source] 2020-05-31 22:09:39
>>MDWoli+(OP)
There's two sides to every story. And every business/organization has bad apples. Achieving perfection becomes order of magnitudes more expensive the closer you are to achieving it, so some level of acceptance that factors economic cost must be reached. The police are humans too. Knowing people are throwing Molotov Cocktails and bricks at police cars, I wouldn't sit still in my car if people, I mean, a mob (mentality) surrounded it. Self preservation.

My theory on why the police need to use some level of brutality is because a mob mentality is an animal. It's an amorphous mammalian manifestation that is afraid of loud noises, pain, and losing it's ability to breath easily. So they use counterpart tools to control it, because when this animal cant be controlled, the whole city could be be razed in flames. (As an example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots#Destruc... )

Im not excusing shitty behavior, but it's worth considering there are millions of events going on in these protests, and all the excess force ones fit in a bullet list on my monitor. Also, in many of the listed events, the cops told people to move away or go back inside repeatedly before taking action. From their perspective, keeping battle formation is necessary to success. And lawfully, you are supposed to comply with this demand.

Just things to consider. I hope I'm not gut-reaction-down voted for taking the middle ground.

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38. corona+uB[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-31 22:21:01
>>koheri+cy
https://streamable.com/u2jzoo
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43. QUFB+mC[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-31 22:26:04
>>eezurr+sz
Keep in mind, the middle might be very narorw.

Just last year, in the official Christmas Tree in Minneapolis precinct 4 headquarters, discarded malt liquor containers and menthol cigarette packages were used as ornaments:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/12/racist-christmas...

What perspective make you happy about taking a middle road around a police force, and society, that tolerated this? The police haven’t needed to hide their outright motives: it’s race, whether it’s killing someone or decorating a Christmas tree. Other officers don’t speak up. Enjoy the privilege, I do and am more than aware.

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46. cellul+CD[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-31 22:34:28
>>eezurr+sz
I don't know man, it really doesn't have to be this way. Look at how people respond when authority figures act like human beings: https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1267107339833925634

Imagine if the police showed up and started handing out water bottles, rather than assaulting unarmed (but angry) citizens. I think you'd see a different response.

Imagine if the police were trained to remain passive even when struck. A few violent protesters would strike the police, but if they remained passive I don't think it would take the sight of very many passive cops getting beaten up before the crowd would turn on the violent protesters and protect the cops. Seeing someone getting beaten without defending themselves triggers a very powerful gut reaction in people, even when the victim is 'the enemy'.

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49. Stella+VD[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-31 22:36:06
>>koheri+cy
https://imgur.com/gallery/iFMweYc
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52. _bxg1+nF[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-31 22:46:22
>>eezurr+YC
> I also don't view the police force as one identity

I'm sorry, what? They are literally an organization. With uniforms. The entire point is that they're supposed to be one entity. If they can't even act as one entity - much less one that, I don't know, helps people - then why do they get to wear the uniform at all?

> When you talk to a mob, you aren't talking to anyone.

They don't have to talk. They can show through their actions that they're willing to de-escalate the violence. Here's one that did: https://twitter.com/SCr_conserv/status/1266885805328355333

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56. komali+6J[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-31 23:12:19
>>verdve+bn
> excuse to commit crime

When cops break the law, and that's what they're doing here, they destroy faith in the justice system, in rule of law.

What's crime? Is looting a Target, crime? Sure, according to tons of various laws in the USA, it is. Think about it another way though - there's a pile of food, more food than anybody could possibly eat before it spoils. In fact, lots of it does get thrown away, because it spoils. You're hungry, you walk up, take some, eat it, and leave. Did you just do something unethical? You take a TV, a pure form of entertainment and nothing more. Did you just do something Bad? Hm. Maybe, if I followed a very very long chain of events, I could say that the taking of the TV meant a CEO got to buy 1/100th less TVs for himself, sure, that's kinda bad I guess.

Is it... worst than someone with a state-sponsored monopoly on violence doing, well, any of the following? :

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23373619

There is no "excused crime" happening here. It's people recognizing that the rule of law is broken, that those with the Most Might are doing as they please, and telling themselves "well fuck it, I'm going to get a TV then."

Expectation of the citizenry to, uh, "respect property rights" (lmfao) is absurd when we don't even expect our police to respect the rights of People to exist without violence being committed against them.

So in short, who gives a fuck if target loses TVs - until we solve police brutality to the point that every cop is held criminally accountable for unethical violence, I say let it all burn, because the harm done by a looted target is immeasurably less than even a single instance of police brutality.

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57. komali+jJ[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-31 23:13:53
>>koheri+Cy
It would be as easy for the cops as staying home, because that's literally all they have to do to prevent violence in the streets.

https://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-proacti...

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59. eezurr+HK[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-31 23:22:33
>>cellul+CD
It appears that officer is not talking to a mob, but to dozens of calm people. Different situation. If people are already screaming and shouting, or worse, breaking things, and there are hundreds of them, that wont work.

>Imagine if the police were trained to remain passive even when struck.

Tell me how much it would cost to train a police force to that level of self control, and to be able identify, in a split second, if the person is attempting to do serious harm to you or is just blowing off steam. Once a person is close enough, there are plenty of blind spots to pull a knife out of.

>the crowd would turn on the violent protesters and protect the cops

Crowd psychology overrides individual identity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowd_psychology

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_mentality

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_intelligence

60. xupybd+iL[view] [source] 2020-05-31 23:27:45
>>MDWoli+(OP)
The protests might lead to real change and save lives.

The riots will get people killed and are destroying businesses.

Events like this are as bad as the original event https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/22-arrested-60-l...

If this has deteriorated to an eye for an eye I'm not sure where it will end. I hope things get better before there is more loss of life.

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65. verdve+cP[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-05-31 23:59:17
>>onemor+nl
I see you've edited your comment to add colors where I had not. You did claim to be white at the time, is that still the case? I only brought up that I was because you had, but have since removed that statement. Which version (white or not) supports your narrative better? A little disingenuous don't ya think?

I spoke of the broad variety of people involved in a sibling comment, did you consider my comments at large to gain perspective or chose things in isolation to support your world view?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23372896

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68. testbo+UR[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-01 00:24:20
>>mixmas+VN
> “Tear gas is considered a riot control agent because the effects dissipate a short time after exposure,’’ said Kelsey Davenport, director for nonproliferation policy at the Arms Control Association. “But even though the effects of tear gas wear off, its symptoms are harsh and terrifying, including severe eye irritations and difficulty breathing.

> “The United States may justify firing tear gas [...] as legal, but the decision to use an indiscriminate, psychologically terrifying toxic chemical was excessive and certainly immoral."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/11/27/tear-gas-forb...

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69. Balgai+1U[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-01 00:46:11
>>eezurr+HK
It's interesting to compare the present issues with policing with those of about a month ago:

https://twitter.com/TyreeBP/status/1256813343764918272

Granted, the number of people is ~100x different. Still, examples like the tweet above illustrate that the needed 'self control' has existed within about a pay-period or two.

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70. Balgai+bU[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-01 00:49:05
>>testbo+UR
The acoup blog has an amazingly detailed post on chemical weapons and the reasons behind their disuse today:

https://acoup.blog/2020/03/20/collections-why-dont-we-use-ch...

TLDR: They hit you just as hard as they hit the enemy and they are wildly unpredictable.

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73. dclusi+KZ[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-01 02:01:29
>>anewdi+PQ
The Sikhs that got killed for wearing turbans after 9/11/2001 weren't living in SF, LA or NY.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/15/us/sikh-hate-crime-victims/in...

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74. gamblo+j41[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-01 03:09:09
>>teraki+2h
The Geneva Convention permits the use of tear gas for non military crowd control purposes. It's use is simply prohibited for military purposes. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/aug/26/facebook-p...
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78. dang+Ke1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-01 06:03:15
>>verdve+Oe
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23371796.
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79. sfj+ri1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-01 07:14:16
>>onemor+nl
> Are you aware of white supremacists? I saw a video with a white guy breaking windows with a hammer and protesters chased him away.

Why did you imply that guy was a white supremicist? What ever evidence do you have?

Video in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vurPRZbLvc

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80. sfj+zi1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-01 07:15:58
>>verdve+2f
This channel is pretty good: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVKDKWKR498Ut2m8H5oUEcA
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83. corny+sn1[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-01 08:21:23
>>bobbyl+eo
Or in 1980, Norco California, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norco_shootout#Legacy The police were outgunned by a group of bank robbers.
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88. loco5n+Yt2[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-01 16:50:46
>>komali+kI
Here's just one example: https://www.whec.com/rochester-new-york-news/rpd-asking-for-...

Animals.

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90. dredmo+aZ2[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-01 19:18:46
>>mavsma+g5
Rules of engagement:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_engagement

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ending-excessive-pol...

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2014/11/how-police-rules-of-e...

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92. loco5n+jc3[view] [source] [discussion] 2020-06-01 20:25:41
>>komali+eO2
I'm talking about the video I linked. Did you watch it?

The looters in this video are acting like animals.

More links to the same incident: https://twitter.com/PatrolRpd/status/1267202275895803904 https://streamable.com/ibwexe?fbclid=IwAR3Kmn22FzFgxAHTxNfiu...

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