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Cyc

submitted by mdszy+(OP) on 2019-12-13 14:08:10 | 357 points 173 comments
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4. stereo+Is[view] [source] 2019-12-13 17:13:35
>>mdszy+(OP)
Knowledge bases should work in principle. There are many issues with filling them manually: a) the schema/ontology/conceptual framework is not guaranteed to be useful especially when done with no specific application in mind b) high cost of adding each fact with little marginal benefit etc. But I don't think it outweighs the issues of "pure" machine learning that much: poor introspection, capricious predictability of what you will get, and if you want to have really structured and semi-reliable information you will probably have to rely, at some point, on something like Wikipedia meta-information (DBpedia). Which is really a knowledge base with its own issues.

I think what really stopped Cyc from getting a wider traction is its closed nature[0]. People do use Princeton WordNet, which you can get for free, even though it's a mess in many aspects. The issue and mentality here is similar to commercial Common Lisp implementations, and the underlying culture is similar (oldschool 80s AI). These projects were shaped with a mindset that major progress in computing will happen with huge government grants and plans[1]. However you interpret the last 30 years, it was not exactly true. It's possible that all these companies earn money for their owners, but they have no industry-wide impact.

I was half-tempted once or twice to use something like Cyc in some project, but it would probably be too much organizational hassle. Especially if it turned out to be something commercial I wouldn't want to be dependent on someone's licensing and financial whims, especially if it can be avoided.

[0] There was OpenCyc for a time, but it was scrapped.

[1] Compare https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20569098

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7. sp332+vv[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-12-13 17:35:14
>>vsskan+iu
There are a bunch of "standards" for representing knowledge. E.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_Web

[Edit] Here's a wider overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_representation_and_r...

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27. emw+uF[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-12-13 18:41:53
>>stereo+Is
> if you want to have really structured and semi-reliable information you will probably have to rely, at some point, on something like Wikipedia meta-information (DBpedia).

Wikidata is also worth considering for that task. It is:

* Directly linked from Wikipedia [1]

* The data source for many infoboxes [2]

* Seeded with data from Wikipedia

* More active and integrated in community

* Larger in total number of concepts

Wikidata also has initiatives in lexicographic data [3] and images [4, 5].

On the subject of Cyc: the CycL "generalization" (#$genls) predicate inspired Wikidata's "subclass of" property [6], which now links together Wikidata's tree of knowledge.

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1. See "Wikidata" link at left in all articles, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_base

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Infobox_templates_usi...

3. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Lexicographical_data/...

4. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wikimedia_Commons/Dev...

5. See "Structured data" tab in image details on Wikimedia Commons, e.g. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mona_Lisa,_by_Leonar...

6. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property_talk:P279#Archived_cr...

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43. random+zL[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-12-13 19:28:13
>>radekl+SJ
Yes there is doubt. Can you say for sure that we have a complete model of all physics, and that all physics can be represented computationally? We're still discovering new features of neurons at the quantum level. Who knows how far down it goes. There may be some unknown physics at play inside neurons that can not be computed by a Turing machine. https://www.elsevier.com/about/press-releases/research-and-j...
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45. Jeff_B+IM[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-12-13 19:36:18
>>wrnr+fE
Agreed. Human thinking is arbitrarily high-order -- we use statements about statements about statements with no particular natural complexity limit. This seems to me the big limitation of knowledge graphs: The majority of real-world information, just like the majority of natural-language sentences, are highly nested relationships among relationships.

That was my motivation for writing Hode[1], the Higher-Order Data Editor. It lets you represent arbitrarily nested relationships, of any arity (number of members). It lets you cursor around data to view neighboring data, and it offers a query language that is, I believe, as close as possible to ordinary natural language.

(Hode has no inference engine, and I don't call it an AI project -- but it seems relevant enough to warrant a plug.)

[1] https://github.com/JeffreyBenjaminBrown/hode

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59. Jeff_B+3T[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-12-13 20:17:43
>>vsskan+iu
Attempto Controlled English[1] is a cool project: it's a formal language, but a subset of ordinary English.

My own Hode, described in an earlier comment[2], makes it easy for anyone who speaks some natural language to enter and query arbitrary structured data.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempto_Controlled_English

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21784617

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66. xamuel+oU[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-12-13 20:26:54
>>yters+5T
I'm not saying it's not scientifically answerable, just that hiring people specifically to answer it is not practical.

This type of thing usually comes through unplanned breakthroughs. You can't discover that the earth revolves around the sun just by paying tons of money to researchers and asking them to figure out astronomy. All that would get you would be some extremely sophisticated Copernican cycle-based models.

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2012-08-09

67. MauiWa+0V[view] [source] 2019-12-13 20:29:59
>>mdszy+(OP)
I used to read about cyc here https://www.cyc.com/cycl-translations. But it says now "coming soon". Since we have folks from Cyc here, any ideas how soon?
78. joveia+o01[view] [source] 2019-12-13 21:05:34
>>mdszy+(OP)
I can't find it but I distinctly remember that there was part of an episode of 3-2-1 contact in the 80s about what must have been an early version of this system. It was the exact same thing as brundolf mentions* about the common sense system and how they set up the system to ask questions when contradictions arose. An example they used was it had asked if a human is still human when shaving. It is interesting that the system still exists.

Of course, I don't recall them mentioning any of the more dystopian things it could be (and sounds like has been) used for :/.

* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21784105

On second thought, it might have been an Alan Kay presentation. I couldn't find that either but looking I did find this interesting Wired article from 2016:

https://www.wired.com/2016/03/doug-lenat-artificial-intellig...

93. dex_te+kf1[view] [source] 2019-12-13 22:58:51
>>mdszy+(OP)
1) What do you think about hybrid approach: hypergraphs + large-scale NLP models (transformers)?

2) How far we're from real self-evolving cognitive architectures with self-awareness features? Is it a question of years, months, or it's already solved problem?

3) Does it make sense to use embeddings like https://github.com/facebookresearch/PyTorch-BigGraph to achieve better results?

4) Why Cycorp decided to limit communication and collaboration with scientific community / AI-enthusiasts at some point?

5) Did you try to solve GLUE / SUPERGLUE / SQUAD challenges with your system?

6) Is Douglas Lenat still contribute actively to the project?

Thanks

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137. Reraro+wT1[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-12-14 11:05:25
>>lorepi+AR1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIXI
156. jsonbo+EM3[view] [source] 2019-12-15 13:39:49
>>mdszy+(OP)
http://conceptnet.io/
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168. radema+ERj[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-12-22 16:17:33
>>jacque+fo1
That is SUMO Ontology (http://ontologyportal.org)! It is open, in GitHub and people can contribute.
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169. radema+gSj[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-12-22 16:22:55
>>gavanw+Zx
I have been working on that direction with Lean Theorem Prover (https://leanprover.github.io). There is also works using Coq (https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-35786-2_...)
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