zlacker

Why does the Librem 5 phone cost that much?

submitted by fghtr+(OP) on 2019-11-28 11:24:16 | 311 points 248 comments
[view article] [source] [go to bottom]

NOTE: showing posts with links only show all posts
3. lnsru+Z3[view] [source] 2019-11-28 12:04:54
>>fghtr+(OP)
This great Dev Kit design is available for everybody: https://kicad-pcb.org/made-with-kicad/librem_5_dev_kit/ Amazing piece of open source hardware. While I am not interested in cellphones, I might use for robotics project.
5. Dyslex+v4[view] [source] 2019-11-28 12:09:14
>>fghtr+(OP)
They are an SPC not aln LLC. Does anyone know what is the difference between a Washington SPCs and LLCs? Is it true that as mentioned here[0] that:

> I think the story is that Washington SPCs are LLCs in pretty much every aspect besides shareholder-board disputes.

and, why

> have they never made a Social Purpose Report available despite the fact that they've been an SPC for two and a half years?

from the bottom of the article[1]:

> It is also worth keeping in mind that Purism isn't actually incorporated as a typical LLC (Limited Liability Company). They are actually incorporated as a SPC (Social Purpose Corporation) in the state of Washington. The primary difference between an LLC and an SPC in Washington is that SPCs can do things that are in the best interests of their customers rather than always doing things that are in the best interests of their shareholders. It is also important to know that in Washington this status comes with some extra regulatory requirements ...

----

if formed as an SPC, shouldn't they be transparent in how they allocate budgets to internal projects (as proof that they do what is outlined in the Social Purpose Report (SPR))? It's a shame they don't produce a SPR which could be used to verify the claims about price in this post.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21371573

[1] https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-puri...

◧◩
11. teddyh+I7[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-11-28 12:40:23
>>131012+L6
This post from yesterday claims that they have actually started shipping them now:

https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-birch-shipping-announcement/

15. oefrha+i9[view] [source] 2019-11-28 12:55:26
>>fghtr+(OP)
What their former CTO had to say: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Zlatan-T...
◧◩
16. Dyslex+8a[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-11-28 13:04:10
>>oefrha+i9
also comments when it was discussed at the time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21303770
17. DCKing+ua[view] [source] 2019-11-28 13:07:35
>>fghtr+(OP)
This blogpost propagates what I'd like to describe as an urban legend about baseband processors and main memory. The story originates from old times where even fancy phones allowed the baseband to write everywhere in main memory. The myth then becomes that you need the baseband physically separated from your main application processor.

But the world's moved on since those reports were made. It's FUD: https://www.reddit.com/r/CopperheadOS/comments/6wtul0/on_sen...

◧◩
21. DJHenk+bb[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-11-28 13:14:48
>>131012+L6
There is this guy on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Purism/comments/e2mqgb/i_have_my_li...
◧◩
33. Dyslex+Sf[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-11-28 13:54:51
>>DCKing+ua
the claims on this link to the CopperheadOS reddit post dismisses the importance of baseband security which is pretty insane.

The baseband is permanently attached to a public network. Not having control over whether that connection actually is up is a huge security hole. The entire baseband software stack runs in supervisor mode. There are no non-executable pages, there's no stack protection.

EDIT-1: Qualcomm baseband chips have location tracking baked in. Even with a clean OS and no tracking apps, the baseband does it. The tracking data is commercially available: https://web.archive.org/web/20180514003056/https://www.qualc...

◧◩
37. lonela+2h[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-11-28 14:04:11
>>Aeolun+1g
It's 2x the average phone price, so it's excluding the majority of the market.

https://www.vox.com/2018/1/23/16923832/global-smartphone-pri...

◧◩
42. Random+Qi[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-11-28 14:20:52
>>ForFre+Sd
They take Monero, so you can try https://LocalMonero.co

or if there isn't anyone you want to buy from, you can try LocalBitcoin and then convert.

◧◩
48. davidg+ek[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-11-28 14:33:57
>>jokoon+Nj
You should check out the Pinephone then: https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/
◧◩◪
66. teddyh+Nr[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-11-28 15:45:10
>>mattke+Oj
> The Librem […] doesn't include basic functionality like calendars, calculators and notes.

From what I can see, this is untrue:

Calculator: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esYJSNZrQWc

Notes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34XhhVlmYTU and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEzRgjHaIZo

It would surprise me if there wasn’t a calendaring program in there, too

70. bo1024+5s[view] [source] 2019-11-28 15:47:19
>>fghtr+(OP)
Sidenote: I got my Librem 5 in the mail yesterday! Below is a video of unboxing.

https://peertube.co.uk/videos/watch/55eece8c-2d6c-4da3-8c8c-...

This prototype version is definitely not ready for mass market due to (1) known overheating issue (so far I've observed it get quite warm sometimes, but not uncomfortably hot), (2) a bunch little software things to work on. But it's really exciting to be able to `ls` and `cd` and `ssh` on a phone, and know that the software updates are coming.

Purism's accomplishment already is pretty incredible on both a hardware and software level. For me, well worth the price. Congrats to them even if there is a ways to go yet.

◧◩◪◨
71. mattke+ds[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-11-28 15:48:18
>>teddyh+Nr
I'm getting the information directly from the Librem 5 product page[0]:

"Upon initial shipment of the Librem 5 in 2019, it will offer the essentials: phone functionality, email, messaging, voice, camera, browsing. Your user experience will improve as we incrementally add commonly requested applications and features (such as calendaring, notes, calculator, PDF viewer, etc.) while keeping performance in mind."

[0] https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/

◧◩◪◨⬒
94. atoav+BA[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-11-28 16:47:05
>>skumme+Tn
This is entirely subjective, but I think the UI is needlessly unintuitive (but okay compared to other EDA tools), and the parts management seems not well thought out IMO. A similar feeling that e.g. LTSpice gives me: you can get into it, but parts feel arbitrary and other parts feel hacky, and ultimately you never really enjoy it.

My favourite open source EDA tool that IMO does it better is horizon EDA. https://horizon-eda.readthedocs.io/en/latest/feature-overvie...

I made quite a few working PCBs with that one already. Downsides are:

- the library is not that big yet (but adding parts is really easy, you can even use inheritance etc)

- won’t run on any old machine because of the OpenGL-version

- if you are not using windows you need to compile yourself

One of the things I really like besides the UI/UX (one button hotkeys!) is the library concept called “pool”, where every part is made up of modular pieces, which makes things reusable and consistent. If you’d like to change the resistor symbol for all resistors you just have to edit in one place, if you feel like making a opamp with eight channels, just duplicate the quad one and add four more opamp units. Their concept takes a moment to sink in, but is incredible flexible and is one of these “why didn’t we do it like that from the start”-ideas.

◧◩◪◨
105. icebra+dH[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-11-28 17:49:31
>>traver+nF
You can run a full GNU/Linux distro, and apt-get install most stuff: https://f-droid.org/packages/tech.ula/
◧◩◪◨⬒
107. rnestl+rH[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-11-28 17:51:40
>>skumme+Tn
Some of the most annoying things for me in KiCAD are (or were, maybe some of them got fixed):

* Projects not standalone / portable across computers, which makes collaborating hard.

* Parts library management is not intuitive. Lots of confusing UI around library paths for example.

* Footprint assignment should be handled automatically or at least provide sensible suggestions instead of every footprint with the same amount of pads.

But there are two promising alternatives around: Horizon EDA, which the sibling post already mentioned, and LibrePCB (https://librepcb.org).

I personally only used LibrePCB for some project and it worked quite well, apart from some missing features, like missing design rule check. But the upcoming 0.1.3 release adds quite some of them.

◧◩◪◨⬒
120. jstanl+3K[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-11-28 18:15:43
>>teddyh+Pr
> Crackpots can be filtered out using logic, though. But people don’t do that;

For an excellent argument of why most people shouldn't do that, I recommend the essay "epistemic learned helplessness": https://web.archive.org/web/20180406150429/https://squid314....

The gist is that most people are so bad at evaluating logical arguments that they are more likely to be swayed by false arguments rather than correct ones, so the winning strategy is to simply ignore everything that sounds strange.

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔
138. ac29+IQ[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-11-28 19:28:01
>>ptx+bO
At least at the moment Librem5 still requires non-upstreamed drivers: "The kernel will be the 5.3 mainline kernel with some additional drivers" [0]

They do at least appear to be actively developing those drivers publicly for eventual submission upstream, though: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/linux-next/activity

[0] https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/Software_Reference.html

◧◩◪
142. fghtr+fR[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-11-28 19:32:43
>>mike-c+eQ
It should not be too hard to add your own keyboard layout. Many are available already (but not UK): https://forums.puri.sm/t/translations-and-virtual-touch-keyb...
◧◩◪◨
145. gallex+kS[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-11-28 19:43:23
>>traver+nF
Theres also https://github.com/t184256/nix-on-droid-bootstrap on fdroid for a good package manager
◧◩◪
146. ac29+sS[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-11-28 19:44:00
>>mattke+Oj
It also cant make phone calls: "audio is not routed (no voice heard or sent)" https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-birch-shipping-announcement/
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔
149. pjmlp+ET[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-11-28 19:57:02
>>icebra+OJ
So how does it work around the missing APIs not described here?

https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis

Given the changes started with Android 7 to block access to everything else?

In fact, https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/Differences_from_Linux

◧◩◪◨⬒⬓
226. thu211+7P1[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-11-29 10:03:07
>>jstanl+3K
Better URL: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/06/03/repost-epistemic-learn...
◧◩◪◨⬒⬓⬔⧯▣▦▧
233. cartoo+pg2[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-11-29 15:56:11
>>azdle+pc1
This internal expansion is a really cool feature. I'm not sure how much use I would make of it, but I really like this feature and I was surprised they were able to cram it in there. Nice one.

More info: https://liliputing.com/2019/08/librem-5-smartphone-will-have...

◧◩◪◨
236. ptx+aE2[view] [source] [discussion] 2019-11-29 20:09:11
>>shmerl+Mh1
> Not sure what you refer to in regards to padding

I can't find a good introduction on the topic at the moment, so I'll just quote Microsoft's succinct answer: "Alignment makes your UI look neat, organized, and balanced and can also be used to establish visual hierarchy and relationships."

They also have a nice illustration: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/design/layout/a...

This kind of thing matters for usability. KDE has always been ahead in technical features, but GNOME has for a long time been way ahead in paying attention to basic principles of visual design.

[go to top]